Sub rogue looking for a bit of info

[ArgentDrake 0]

Hello Icy-Veins, this is my first forum post, so hello everyone! I've been lurking around for a bit. Anyways ~~

 

I think icy veins has the more accurate guides vs noxxic, but there is one thing i'm wondering about. One site says to take Subterfuge (Noxxic) the other Shadow Focus (Icy) 

 

I understand that the extra ambush will extend find weakness by that little amount, but is it that much better?

Thanks!

[Krushinator 49]

You've got your sites mixed up, we say Subterfuge and Noxxic says Shadow Focus, but I'll explain why.

 

Subterfuge is better when you properly track and exploit it. 3 seconds is quite a window in the Rogue rotation, so if you can delay your second Ambush to the very last moment of Subterfuge, that gives you almost 3 extra seconds of Find Weakness, which will translate into 2 more buffed special attacks (unless you're energy starved) plus more buffed auto attacks. Shadow Focus just gives you a single cheap Ambush, which could give you 1 more buffed special attack and less buffed auto attacks.

[ArgentDrake 0]

Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to know.

[Mav360 1]

A bit unrelated, but I'm trying to clarify the Sub Rotation a bit.

 

Is the idea of refreshing Find Weakness with an Ambush right before it finishes realistic? Chances are that more often than not you run out of Slice n' Dice (fortunately Rupture is now out of this problem, due to Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins) in the middle of all that Find Weakness, and you have to refresh it in the middle of it. I end up waiting a few seconds, if necessary, to activate the next cooldown so that I can refresh my Slice n' Dice in between, am I doing it wrong?

 

Also, how are you supposed to manage Slice n' Dice time so that it lines up with the cooldowns? Let's say Shadow Dance is 5 secs away from ending cooldown and I have 10 secs of Slice n' Dice left. Obviously it won't last for the entirety of Find Weakness, so should I just refresh SnD with 5 or w/e CPs right away before jumping into Shadow Dance?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Mav360

[Krushinator 49]

I'm going to break this down into more clear questions:

 

 

1. Is the idea of refreshing Find Weakness with an Ambush right before it finishes realistic?

 

Based on what we were talking about above, you might mean two things. If you're asking whether or not it is realistic to use Ambush right at the end of Subterfuge, then with the right set of power auras it is indeed realistic. Three seconds isn't a long time so you have to really be on the ball about watching your timers, but if you're looking to max out then you can exploit Subterfuge in that way.

 

You may also be asking if it is realistic to use Ambush to refresh Find Weakness right at the end of Find Weakness. This would only be possible if you had another stealth cooldown lined up, in which case yes it is possible to reapply Find Weakness right after it falls off.

 

2. Is it wrong to wait to refresh Find Weakness in order to refresh Slice and Dice?

 

No, this is a good practice. Refreshing Slice and Dice during Find Weakness has to be done sometimes, particularly at the start of a fight, but later on you can gain a better control of your Slice and Dice uptime over top of Find Weakness uptime. With more gear this actually becomes harder, as the Tier 16 4pc along with a high level Assurance of Consequence pair to give you very high uptime on Find Weakness.

 

3. How are you supposed to manage Slice and Dice with other cooldowns? ex. 5 seconds until Shadow Dance, 10 seconds on Slice and Dice.

 

I don't have any theorycrafting evidence to back me up, but I would say clipping Slice and Dice in that situation would be a greater overall gain. Losing a few combo points in an unbuffed period should mean less overall than losing a few combo points during a buffed period.

[Backstab 0]

In response to the third question, I agree entirely; I may even go as far as to extend Slice and Dice and a bleed such as hemo (providing my current hemo is a weak one) just to maximise ambush time during dance.

[destri 1]

In the guide it doesn't say when to cast slice and dice in the opener.  I'm assuming it's right before you shadowstep/garrote?

[Krushinator 49]

I like to use Premeditation into Slice and Dice right before opening. I use it so that I don't have to be without the buff during the initial Subterfuge phase. With this method, you'll have to time your refresh cast with the end of the initial Find Weakness buff so that you aren't refreshing Slice and Dice during Shadow Dance.

 

I will review the posted opening sequence to see if any clarifications have to be made.