Advise - Haste Vs Mastery

[Kothe 1]

I wish to know whats its better for a ret pally. If it depends on how is your playing style or based on the gear. Ty

[Oreoxd 165]

It's a mixture of both, below I'll say.... 560, you'll primarily be gemming for haste, as you need to reach the 40% haste threshold. Once you reach 40% you have 2 choices, 3 if you have thok's tail tip. 

 

1) Continue going haste, this continues to lower the cds of your skills and will generally make you use you procs faster.

 

2) Mastery, the king of aoe and general single target damage, this is what most rets go for as it makes BIG AND PRETTY NUMBERS. (currently I'm finding some argument that continuing to go for 50% haste and then mastery isn't a bad choice but have yet to have a chance to test it)

 

Only with thok's tail tip does this apply

 

3) Crit, with thok's and the crit amp, crit becomes the number one thing to reforge into, while going for 50% haste

Hope that answers your question, and if you have anymore please don't hesitate to ask.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Auriel

[AMonkeyCourier 2]

There's actually a balance you should maintain between mastery and crit with Thok's, since both scale with the other stat. My sims have shown the ideal ratio to be around approximately 50% of each in base rating.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AMonkeyCourier

[Oreoxd 165]

There's actually a balance you should maintain between mastery and crit with Thok's, since both scale with the other stat. My sims have shown the ideal ratio to be around approximately 50% of each in base rating.

Ideally yes, but since sims are largely single target (I'm guessing your sim is) it won't factor in the addition of adds.

[AMonkeyCourier 2]

Logic stands that an ideal ratio would remain. Exclusively focusing on either stat would be a DPS loss regardless of the circumstances.

 

I'll sim it for 2 and 5 targets once I have a moment. Completely forgot to do that until you mentioned it just now.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AMonkeyCourier

[Oreoxd 165]

I'd also like to add that I'm saying this as I was last running, I haven't raided much since release of item upgrades so I haven't had much chance to change or see the difference in anything, but I'm seeing a lot of top rets have pretty much started going haste 50% then crit. So I apologize monkey.

[AMonkeyCourier 2]

Are they reforging their haste/mastery gear into full crit? If so, that would put them pretty close to the ratio I simmed out. 50% haste surprises me a bit though.

[Oreoxd 165]

Yes they are so far the top ret has done completely that, in fact he's gone so far as to make all his gear crit haste where he can.

[Lucivero 5]

Are they reforging their haste/mastery gear into full crit? If so, that would put them pretty close to the ratio I simmed out. 50% haste surprises me a bit though.

 

What ratios did you end up with (aproximately) for single target? Haven't really used SimC yet myself so if i'd go and sim around a bit now i'd mess up for sure lol.

 

Yes they are so far the top ret has done completely that, in fact he's gone so far as to make all his gear crit haste where he can.

 

Who are you calling the top ret? I checked a bunch of the best rets that i know off but none of them was going full crit, most were hovering somewhere between 800-1000 stats reforged / gemmed into crit, so nowhere near 'full' crit.

[Kothe 1]

Thank you all who replied to this topic. It was helpful!

[Oreoxd 165]

 

Who are you calling the top ret? I checked a bunch of the best rets that i know off but none of them was going full crit, most were hovering somewhere between 800-1000 stats reforged / gemmed into crit, so nowhere near 'full' crit.

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/turalyon/Zardox/advanced

 

Gems for haste, reforges into crit, top ranked ret on warcraft logs. same for pretty much all of them.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/9643/5/#boss=0

[LobbyBoy 37]

I have done some sim work with Zardox:

 

First the orig. stats:

 

 

 

Now with 50% haste and 65% mastery:

 

 

 

And finaly the "classical" 40% haste build with 75% mastery:

 

 

All single boss fights ...

 

Edit: Have also done some sim with Skeers instead of Evil Eye on crit build - with the worst result:

413609.8 

Edited July 29, 2014 by LobbyBoy

[AMonkeyCourier 2]

What ratios did you end up with (aproximately) for single target? Haven't really used SimC yet myself so if i'd go and sim around a bit now i'd mess up for sure lol.

 

 

 

For my gear, I was precisely on point. It's right here.

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Gourdcritic/advanced

 

Gems/reforges are a bit wonky since I quickly frankensteined them into place from my old full mastery setup into this. I'll optimise them once I get some upgrades.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, this is where I reforged out of crit to make my prot set work better after this week's Garrosh. In reality, crit was a tiny bit ahead of mastery. Ratio was like 55:45.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AMonkeyCourier

[Lucivero 5]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/turalyon/Zardox/advanced

 

Gems for haste, reforges into crit, top ranked ret on warcraft logs. same for pretty much all of them.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/9643/5/#boss=0

 

Should've known to check on warcraftlogs, was checking in the wrong place, so thanks for posting!

Time to sim a bit and reforge again ^^

[Oreoxd 165]

Lobby what stats are the first one?

[LobbyBoy 37]

Lobby what stats are the first one?

 

First was with Zardox' original stats from the armory link.

[Oreoxd 165]

Alright thanks was a little confused, yeah I redid my entire gemming to go haste, and reforging for crit. At a wonderful 46% haste, 22.6% crit, and 38.2% mastery

[Boltt 28]

Since this is a discussion on stats for rets I'll ask here.

Here is my Armory link:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Boltt/advanced

I'm not at 40% haste yet and I've gemmed to gain socket bonuses.

Would it be worth sacrificing those bonuses and going full +320 haste on everything?

[Geoda 253]

Since this is a discussion on stats for rets I'll ask here.

Here is my Armory link:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Boltt/advanced

I'm not at 40% haste yet and I've gemmed to gain socket bonuses.

Would it be worth sacrificing those bonuses and going full +320 haste on everything?

 Yes. To my understanding getting to the 40% haste point will help your total output tremendously.

[LobbyBoy 37]

@Lucivero:
 
As requested i've simed Zardox with double Amp:
 

 
And here are the stats:

 

As you can see i haven't done any optimizations because of lacking of time. Sorry.

Edited July 30, 2014 by LobbyBoy

[Lucivero 5]

@Lucivero:

 

As requested i've simed Zardox with double Amp:

 

 

And here are the stats:

 

As you can see i haven't done any optimizations because of lacking of time. Sorry.

 

That's actually not as bad as i expected it to be.

Thanks for simming it!

[Oreoxd 165]

So I had a conversation with someone today about stat priority and it brought up a good point.

 

Crit is MOST viable with thok's trinket, without it your priority is to remain going for 40% (or 50%) haste and then mastery. 

 

I've been using crit lately, and tbh I find it fun and pretty much on par if not better than mastery.

[Lucivero 5]

So I had a conversation with someone today about stat priority and it brought up a good point.

 

Crit is MOST viable with thok's trinket, without it your priority is to remain going for 40% (or 50%) haste and then mastery. 

 

I've been using crit lately, and tbh I find it fun and pretty much on par if not better than mastery.

 

What would you think is best for single target, to stick with mastery or go crit instead?

I know mastery is really strong for AoE but i'm not entirely sure if I should go with mastery or crit for singletarget (and then would 40% or 50% haste be best?).

[Oreoxd 165]

Crit. Single target crit would be 100% better. But I'd still got for 50% haste then crit. So you'd pretty much end up with the same stats as a 50/50 crit/mastery pally