Heroic Garrosh Advice - Seeking

[Zilthy 36]

*nod* I learned my lesson on the fail #3.   And I realize that I lost any fancy points I was trying to gain even though I beat the chaos bolt back.

[Zagam 1,982]

I wish WoW had a super hard mode where you had to dodge projectiles from your teammates.  Imagine your raid members fleeing at the big green dragon head coming at them. 

 

Now that I think about that, melee would be absolutely scary.  I would enjoy wiping all of my melee to the floor with a few FnB casts.

[Zilthy 36]

I wish WoW had a super hard mode where you had to dodge projectiles from your teammates.  Imagine your raid members fleeing at the big green dragon head coming at them. 

 

Now that I think about that, melee would be absolutely scary.  I would enjoy wiping all of my melee to the floor with a few FnB casts.

 

Back to the Diablo 1 days, poor Warriors.

 

Although, I do get perverse sort of pleasure from that trash guy in Dark Shaman who mc's.  Ooh?  He's down to 20%?  Let's put a havoc on the mc and shadowburn him.  Oops, did I do that?

[Liquidsteel 279]

The trick is to havoc, wait for the MC to break, THEN triple Shadowburn.

 

Been doing this consistently in flex/lfr/normal for shits n giggles for a LONG time ;)

[Zagam 1,982]

Yes, the fact Havoc becomes a "friendly" debuff and can't be dispelled tickles me pink.  I like to say "hey, xyz, you're going to die in 3, 2, 1, BOOM!"

[Cirous 2]

Fail 1:  Had a wolf rider on me.  Warrior came to peel (I like our warrior, it's like having my own personal protector there) but he had a couple of wolf riders on him that time.  That did not turn out well.

 

Fail 2: One of those 'engineer dead, but went off'  awesome.

 

Fail 3: Had PBI procs up, fired off 2 chaos bolts and came back.  Saw that big ball of hate rolling out and was "Well, shucks.  Guess I should have stayed"

Fail 1: I have my Demonic Circle in the range of where we tank Gary. When he hurls the Desecrated Weapon, I port. Then while I run the rest of the way to the Engineer I put Havoc up on Gary and FnB some Incinerates and end with Conflagrate. When the Engineer is dead, I take the Gateway back to avoid pulling the Farseer. Probably some dps loss there, but I don't take any damage from the Desecrate and more importantly, the adds never target me. I know they should fixate on the target that's closest to them, but in my experience it doesn't always work as intended. And as P1 isn't that much of a dps race I prefer to do it the safe way.

Fail 2: Everyone hates it.

Fail 3: I've been soloing the Engineer on 580 and 581 ilvl with PBI and KTT. My rule of thumb is if PBI procced late or KTT procced a second time and is up on the Engineer, I CB twice and then SB. If they are both up, two CBs is enough. If neither is up, CBx2+Incinerate+Conflagrate is enough to bring it sub 20% and I have time to SB. I've never thrown 3xCB at the Engineer (I don't doubt it's validity on lower ilvl tho).

[Cirous 2]

Oooh, I like the idea of Havocing the mc..I used to kill him/her straight off with a CB, but our druids started to counter that with Cycloning the mc. But Havoc gives me the opportunity to wait till the Cyclone is over >:). How didn't I come up with this myself, even after I once accidentaly Havoc'ed the mc in Gary and wiped the raid.

[Liquidsteel 279]

They Cyclone the MC? That's hilarious. I'd be so pissed if someone cycloned me, it's bad enough when people use stuns! Such a DPS loss.

[Zilthy 36]

Phase 3 - Empowered adds:  To Havoc or not to Havoc?

 

Currently putting havoc on Garrosh, was thinking that I could put a havoc on another add to take them down more quickly, but that seems a bit risky, as the havoc'd add could be pulled next to another and end up dying, which would be bad.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Don't attack adds unless they're stationary. As you said, Chaos bolt is slow and you can't trust people to not move them.

[Zilthy 36]

Things are going a lot smoother now, and we're hitting P4.  Yay!

 

I did find that I had to make a couple of changes.  There were some times where even after 3 chaos bolts the engineer would still be up.   Although I am not a fan of reforging to solve an issue (unless the reforging is really really wrong) I ended up dropping a little haste for a bit more crit, and also dropped my HWF KTT for my normal BBOY and that has proven to be a lot more consistent and keeps me at a haste level that I am happy with.  The reliable stats and mastery is a lot more value, but it makes me sad to use a normal trinket instead of a HWF one.

 

The other change was on intermission, where I was initially hitting the first group on the right, now getting the back group on the right by Garrosh.

 

Now that I am comfortable with things in this fight, it's coming down to just doing things cleaner and working on improving my DPS through it.

 

And so far, for me at least, this is the most fun fight that I have had this progression. :D

[Liquidsteel 279]

I really don't see a normal BBoY being better than a HCWF KTT. We're talking 19 ilvls here, that's a huge DPS loss for you over the course of the fight.

 

For me, at 578 ilvl (with iirc about 20k mastery, 10.4k haste and around 5k crit) 3 Chaos Bolts ALWAYS killed the engineer (couldn't even shadowburn). If in doubt, conflagrate and fel flame whilst the third is in the air, then spam shadowburn if for some reason he still isn't dead.

 

The only reason I can see 3 Chaos Bolt's not killing him is likely due to not banking 3 to 6 charges of backdraft, or failing to engage the engineer the exact moment he appears. 

 

Just a thought, but how close are you standing to the wall? I'm curious if standing too close causes you to have LoS issues until he's in position? I stood at pretty much max range and could begin casting at him almost immediately.

 

If you still have issues than just always save two conflagrate charges as you begin running and you can get out 2 Chaos Bolts.

 

Also switching back to KTT will still allow you to retain over 10.4k haste, more than enough to facilitate smooth casting.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm baffled how 3 CBs aren't killing him - are you not lining up CDs or delaying your trinket procs for the first engineer?

 

Also, in P4, if your kiter sucks (only way to wipe), you can do it.  It's well suited for a Warlock to do with Burning Rush.

[Zilthy 36]

3 Chaos bolts are killing him now after I made the changes (First bumping up crit by about 1k or so) and then adding the BBoY (Reforged to mastery).

 

As far as positioning, if anything I might be standing a bit too far back, I am in the area that has the little triangle juts out from the 'path' so I could probably move in a bit more.

 

As far as lining up CD's or delaying procs for first engineer, no I was not.  Since I cannot really do that for the second, I just took the route of making sure I am set up each time (both engineers) to be able to kill them without procs or cd's.

 

It really ticked me off too, getting there, having 3 embers, 3 - 6 backdraft charges, nailing him, and then frantically trying to get down some last dps.

 

Now, it's no longer an issue, even if the HWF KTT is better than the BBoY.

 

As far as positioning, if anything I might be a bit too far back, rather than close.  I am back where the little triangles just out from the side of the 'path', and perhaps I can start in a little sooner if I move it up a bit.

 

And yes, it was bogging my mind too, how sometimes 3 would not kill. That is I started looking at tweaking my haste/crit balance a bit just for this fight and that objective.

 

I do agree Liquid, that the KTT would be better for overall damage, but I also have to admit that I am hesitant to change anything at this point, since I have it down, and there are a lot of things that I am working on in this fight to increase my dps (and making big strides there) that will far outweigh which trinket.  I will see though, I might spend some time playing at 10.4k haste, and see how that feels for me. (Part of the reason my haste is so high, shared gear with Demo/Aff but since not playing either of those specs now no reason to have the extra haste, just really used to it as destruction)

 

Zagam: Yup on the kiting, definitely considering that.  We just hit that, and our rogue was doing the kiting so far (with some feathers down).

[Liquidsteel 279]

I'm just concerned that you could be gaining valuable damage elsewhere in the fight, trinkets and weapons generally provide the highest damage throughput, and a solid 19ilvl downgrade will cost you. Even more so on a fight like Garrosh where BBoY has plenty of opportunities to see its proc wasted (intermissions, running to place weapons and stack for MC, the MC itself, empowered whirling corruptions), vs the not so risky KTT proc and passive.