Affliction...

[Aspalar 0]

So I am a 576 Destro lock... I feel like I do decent destro dps but as I am trying to transition into 25 man instead of 10 man I had some questions...

 

1. At what gear level, if any, does affliction out damage destruction in single target.

2. Looking at raidbots... On single target fights the dps is a lot higher on 25 man. Why is this? I understand fights with adds, but why single target?

3. Is GoSup still better than GoSac even at higher gear levels?

4. I read a recent post on here that said I should have ~60% uptime on haunt... which would require me to cast it slightly more often than once every 8 seconds. How is this possible? I don't seem to generate enough shards to do this.

 

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

EDIT: Added this log below... help me :) http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dxZTWNfvj4Gg9MyV/

Edited September 9, 2014 by Aspalar

[Lockybalboa 618]

1: 575+ it keeps pace but Aff is VERY RNG based.

2: More shamans with stormlash, warriors with crit banner, etc.

3: Aff, GoSup, Destro doesnt matter. Use what is best for the mechanics of the fight.

4: 100% uptime during sub 20% boss HP + some good procs, 60% total uptime is easy. I normally batter around 65-75% uptime.

[Aspalar 0]

Thanks for the response... for #2 will that make up for the almost double dps even on single target fights? Also for #4 I was struggling to keep 50% on a 4 minute fight... but I'm also on a dummy so I don't get the execute phase.

 

Do you have a rough estimate on what I should be pulling at my gear level single target?  I know I'm not pulling what I am supposed to... but I am just curious as to how short I am. SimC has me at like 380k or so I think.

[Aspalar 0]

Here is a log on a dummy... I know I'm bad... But what am I doing wrong haha

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dxZTWNfvj4Gg9MyV/

[Astynax 24]

Training dummy logs are really not going to say much. Grab a flex run or something for accurate logs.

 

 

Thanks for the response... for #2 will that make up for the almost double dps even on single target fights? 

 

I don't understand what you mean?

 

 

 

We can't estimate your true DPS without an armory. Even then, with aff, it's going to be based on what procs you come across and when. Affliction is extremely front heavy. I've literally pulled ~500k dps on a flex 3 Malkorok carry because the fight lasted like 3:15, and I pulled 1M sustained DPS for the first 30 seconds or so due to RNJesus.  Someone missed 2 puddles, we wiped, and the next pull when we killed him my DPS was struggling to break 400k because I only got an 850K DPS opener due to PBI waiting a full 20 seconds to show up. IF you fuck up the first 15 seconds of a fight as Aff, you might as well AFK for the fight.

[Liquidsteel 279]

So I am a 576 Destro lock... I feel like I do decent destro dps but as I am trying to transition into 25 man instead of 10 man I had some questions...

 

1. At what gear level, if any, does affliction out damage destruction in single target.

2. Looking at raidbots... On single target fights the dps is a lot higher on 25 man. Why is this? I understand fights with adds, but why single target?

3. Is GoSup still better than GoSac even at higher gear levels?

4. I read a recent post on here that said I should have ~60% uptime on haunt... which would require me to cast it slightly more often than once every 8 seconds. How is this possible? I don't seem to generate enough shards to do this.

 

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

EDIT: Added this log below... help me http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dxZTWNfvj4Gg9MyV/

1) Depends on kill time, but usually around 570+ with good RNG, and even with bad RNG at 580+ you'll still beat Destruction (again, the shorter the fight, the better it is for Affliction thanks to the opening burst potential).

 

2) People have touched on more raid buffs, however you also need to consider that 25 man is where the majority of the best players compete. Furthermore, 25 man guilds can afford to stack more of the best classes to push even faster kill times. Take a look at the logs for Paragon and Encore. They stack 4-8 Affliction Warlocks each raid, with a bunch of Rogues to provides Tricks of the Trade so some of those locks. They often solo tank and 2 heal most of the bosses, so can stack even more DPS. Most bosses die in about 2 minutes, so Affliction Warlocks can still be sustaining over 800k DPS by the time the bosses die. This is why there is such a discrepancy even on single target.

 

3) Yes, GoSup all the way.

 

4) Haunt was already explained by Locky, but don't forget that you should also not be using Soulburn + Soulswap to refresh your DoTs. You should primarily be refreshing manually (both to save shards for haunt and to not overwrite a strong agony to refresh unstable affliction, for example) and only using SB+SS to capture split second windows of opportunity such as 10 stack BBoY or PBI + DS + a late meta gem proc, etc.

 

Looking at that Dummy test, everything seems fine. I think you pop your Dark Soul a bit late, (I like to use everything during my second refresh at about 2-4 stacks of BBoY) but it actually worked out well here to line it up with your second BBoY proc. You had pretty insane BBoY RNG on this attempt, however! 

 

Unless Warcraft Logs is bugged, I see that 2 minutes in you had PBI + Dark Soul + about 5 stacks of BBoY line up, yet you only cast Soulburn and not Soul Swap, and didn't manually refresh your DoTs. I'm presuming this is a bug. About 20 seconds later you had a 10 stack BBoY ready to go and only cast Soulburn again.

 

I'd like to also point out that you should really be taking AD on almost every fight, especially if you're killing bosses in 3-4 minutes. Affliction doesn't depend on it's filler as much as Destruction, so you can get away with fel flaming a lot more. On multi target fights Soul Swap is your bread and butter anyway. Having an extra Dark Soul to line up with potion and BBoY at certain points will do wonders for your DPS.

[Aspalar 0]

1) Depends on kill time, but usually around 570+ with good RNG, and even with bad RNG at 580+ you'll still beat Destruction (again, the shorter the fight, the better it is for Affliction thanks to the opening burst potential).

 

2) People have touched on more raid buffs, however you also need to consider that 25 man is where the majority of the best players compete. Furthermore, 25 man guilds can afford to stack more of the best classes to push even faster kill times. Take a look at the logs for Paragon and Encore. They stack 4-8 Affliction Warlocks each raid, with a bunch of Rogues to provides Tricks of the Trade so some of those locks. They often solo tank and 2 heal most of the bosses, so can stack even more DPS. Most bosses die in about 2 minutes, so Affliction Warlocks can still be sustaining over 800k DPS by the time the bosses die. This is why there is such a discrepancy even on single target.

 

3) Yes, GoSup all the way.

 

4) Haunt was already explained by Locky, but don't forget that you should also not be using Soulburn + Soulswap to refresh your DoTs. You should primarily be refreshing manually (both to save shards for haunt and to not overwrite a strong agony to refresh unstable affliction, for example) and only using SB+SS to capture split second windows of opportunity such as 10 stack BBoY or PBI + DS + a late meta gem proc, etc.

 

Looking at that Dummy test, everything seems fine. I think you pop your Dark Soul a bit late, (I like to use everything during my second refresh at about 2-4 stacks of BBoY) but it actually worked out well here to line it up with your second BBoY proc. You had pretty insane BBoY RNG on this attempt, however! 

 

Unless Warcraft Logs is bugged, I see that 2 minutes in you had PBI + Dark Soul + about 5 stacks of BBoY line up, yet you only cast Soulburn and not Soul Swap, and didn't manually refresh your DoTs. I'm presuming this is a bug. About 20 seconds later you had a 10 stack BBoY ready to go and only cast Soulburn again.

 

I'd like to also point out that you should really be taking AD on almost every fight, especially if you're killing bosses in 3-4 minutes. Affliction doesn't depend on it's filler as much as Destruction, so you can get away with fel flaming a lot more. On multi target fights Soul Swap is your bread and butter anyway. Having an extra Dark Soul to line up with potion and BBoY at certain points will do wonders for your DPS.

 

1. Awesome, thanks.

 

2. Thanks.

 

3. Thanks.

 

4. I only use SB+SS to refresh my dots when I have either 2 buffs up, or a 10 stack BBoY.

 

I planned on it being a 4 minute fight, which means only 2 Dark Souls... so I saved the second one for procs. Tell me if I shouldn't do this.

 

Every time I cast SB I also cast a SS so I'm not sure why the logs say that.

 

Thanks, I will try using AD.

 

Here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/the-forgotten-coast/Savash/simple

I will try and log some Malk fights tonight on lfr or flex and add that. I am geared for destro right now, so I'm not hitting the 13.7k haste cap... but my stats are close to affliction stats. I can't afford to regem every time I want to kill a dummy.

Thanks for all the help, guys!

[Liquidsteel 279]

Hitting haste caps isn't a big deal to be perfectly honest, you rarely let your DoTs run their full course anyway.

 

I like hitting ones with full haste procs up on the pull, especially Doom breakpoints for Demonology, but for Affliction they aren't a massive deal. 

 

Also, with a 4 minute fight you can get 3 dark souls with AD. Use as normal with PBI, and save the optional one for a nicely timed BBoY proc.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[Berlinia 168]

Another reason why afflocks are quite high on raidbots is as Liquid mentioned due to killtimes. At low killtimes, combined with a degree of luck you can have higher uptimes on things like meta gem and KTT or BBoY. Higher uptimes + Snapshotting = wth muchos damagos.