Group/Guild Loyalty?

[Centrian 6]

Seriously did, hit a wall. Had similar problems with the MC and interrupts. Used the painting weapon strat, which I disagree with as we ran out of room always in p3. I puggged it with stack p1, ping pong p2, stack on boss p3 and suggested that but was shot down. We did ping pong P1, paint right side p2 with weapons, p2B went left killed adds and things went bad at that point with mc's in desecrate.  I sounded like abroken record saying "stack your asses with melee" for the mc's but we held the strat for range and melee to have 2 separate stack groups, basically ignored me. Our warrior could handle all interrupts with distrupting shout, but "NO" lets single target interrupt.  I really like the group, very competant raiders.  But this was really trying. Yes I'm loyal :)

[Orthios 271]

Hmm, my groups strategy was to stack on the tanks (we 2 tank, 2 healed Garrosh) for p1, ping-pong p2 (spread for the empowered whirlwind that we always got after 2nd intermission), and stack on boss for p3.  And we usually had all ranged dps, maybe 1 melee depending on who the PuGs were, so stacking on the tanks was a bit pointless for us.  What's prevented us from killing Garrosh as of yet (~140 wipes so far, closest was 3%) is getting that empowered whirlwind (and sometimes a second) in p2.  Either people aren't picking up their adds fast enough or they get empowered by getting killed close to one another, and that ends up killing us.  

[Centrian 6]

That was  my other pet peeve. What the $^%& does the 2nd tank do? We had 3 tanks & the 3rd was for adds.  Really? Not necessary. All my pugs were solo tanked. Likely why it took us so long. Had to overgear instance to do it that way. Lacking dps to push him quickly. Our grp was 573 when we finally got him down. :(

[Liquidsteel 279]

Again, sounds like issues with strategy and leadership. First of all I recommend solo tanking with 2 healers on 10 man, and solo tanking with 3 healers on 25 + 1 BM monk to kite the adds (who can also take melee hits from the boss for Vengeance now and again). Your tank (if he knows how) will be top of DPS by a fucking mile, and you gain an extra DPS slot too.

 

This should help you push the boss into p3 before intermission two. Failing that, use bloodlust in p2. The DPS check for pushing before intermission two is harder than killing him before second whirling in p3, so it's a viable strategy to use.

 

In regard to the empowered adds, instead of just saying "oh well they empowered lets try again guys", identify who is actually causing adds to empower and fix it. What we often did in 10 man was have everyone pick a spot before we even pulled the boss. You only move out of your purple swirl then you stay ABSOLUTELY STILL until your add is dead. Stun it, hit it with instant spells, do whatever it takes to get aggro, then just DON'T MOVE. Honestly in 10 man progression this caused about 15 wipes itself because we kept having people move on top of eachother or aggro other peoples adds across the room, or worse yet move into melee for MC with adds still alive. You deal with the adds then you can move back to the boss. If an add is still on you then you move close but not into melee, but that's it.

 

When everybody in the raid actually understands the mechanics and how they work and why they need to be executed properly, everything will fall into place. This is why people wipe on him with 575 ilvl when others were killing him on heroic with 570.

[grumbachr 4]

I posed the question not just about my Garrosh frustration but also because my original toon (first Paladin I ever created) is trapped in a guild I can't seem to remove him from.  I love that toon but the guild he's in is useless and the realm is pretty much dead even after the merge. 

 

In a way, it is also a back handed critique of the social aspect of the game.  We all have to admit the game is not growing and, ( I'm only guessing have no actual number here )  new players that do try the game might not renew past the free trial because they are struggling to break into any meaningful social group.   Especially now at the end of an expansion it is  very challenging and I couldn't imagine trying to pick this game up for the first time now.   The social aspect of the game is huge, and  without it what would we have?  Icy-Veins is amazing and has helped me greatly, in getting to where I am now but this is not a site of newbies but seasoned players looking to improve and hop up to the next level.   Guides really seem to be written for  level 90 toons.  But even boosted level 90s are so far behind that even getting invited to a flex is next to impossible.  So I ask, what is the community (not just Icy Veins but everyone in general) doing for new players?

 

 

 

I wish there was a magic bullet for fixing what I see as a problem, but unfortunately I'm just ranting now without any real meaningful suggestions.  I will stop the ranting as I don't want to offend anyone but I think it something we should all give a little thought too.

 

G. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask why you think you deserve anything from us at all? I worked hard to get to where I am today, nobody gave me anything for free or boosted my characters etc.

I give back by sharing my experiences and knowledge, and often analyse logs or offer tips to struggling or less experienced players. I do this because I enjoy it, but if I ever felt forced I would stop.

What are your goals in WoW? I can point you in the right direction to achieve them and maybe offer guidance along the way, but if you want to break into raiding or pvp then you have to do that yourself. Go look up how to gear quickly for flex if that's your main grievance, or read up on guides on how to improve your gameplay. There's plenty of information both here and elsewhere to help you, what more do you want from us?

[Orthios 271]

I'll bring it up Liquid, but the guy with the garrosh lockout had his game time expire (waiting for WoD to refresh it i assume), so we're done on him for now.  We attempted to do immersius on heroic, which resulted in 8 manning 10N immersius and fallen protectors and doing Norushen on heroic.  Got down to 12% wipe on our second attempt, but stopped shortly after due to the raid night ending.

[Peelyon 416]

Grumbachr theres a large number of reasons that new players can struggle.

 

First and foremost from Icy Veins point of view - the game caters towards the end game and so the majority of the information on here is tailored to end game players.  There are levelling guides and also a general healing and tanking guide that help to lay down the basics of what you should be doing etc, but a lot of the game is learned through actually playing.

 

Sadly WoW has been around SO long now that there are a lot of players that used to help out / nurture new talent that are burned out.  I've gone through dozens of players - helping them almost from scratch to develop and play at the game, and now I feel I've done "my bit" and just want to be able to compete at a similar level to my own.

 

Centrians group sounds like an utter nightmare - if I was involved in the group that took 200+ wipes on a boss because they can't get (what I see as an easy fight) tactics right, I would have left.

 

Not because I don't care, or I consider myself elitist etc, but i've played the game long enough now to not want to waste my time.

 

It works both ways - a bit like Liquid has touched on - a lot of players have put in a lot of time and effort to be where they are today - the game has made itself a lot easier for new players compared to the "good old days" and ultimately if new players aren't willing to show a bit of initiative or a bit of desire to go improve themselves, then they shouldn't rely on the rest of the community as much either.

[Berlinia 168]

Back in Dragon Soul i thought I wanted to go raiding in a good group (at least what I thought that time was good). Dragon Soul had just released, and the new 5man HC's were out. However, due to being a main mage, dungeon queue's were just too big.

So when I applied to a guild, their officer whispered me and asked: Why are you not full 5man HC geared?
My reaction was: because the queues are 20 minutes long and I'm too bored to sit behind the computer waiting for them to pop.

 

Now this story, although showing how much of a kid I was back then, also shows how getting in a guild and having a real raiding experience, is all about you. I guarantee you, if that particular raid leader had seen me with full 5man HC gear, that would had shown I had the dedication and want to become a genuinely better player. That would had skyrocketed my chances of getting in.

 

The truth is, not all guilds can do Normal Garrosh. Hell some guilds can't do Normal immerseus. And that's not only a gear issue, it's a player attitude issue. I am not saying you didn't have a good attitude towards progress, but if your group as a whole didn't work towards downing the boss then yeah..... An example: Assume you are class X and mind controls happen. You get a huge proc that is going to do tons of damage. 
You can do two things: interrupt the cast, or use your proc. Which of the two players are you? Are all the players in your group the ones that are going to interrupt the cast?

 

Also think this. None knows their class to it's fullest. And even if you do know your class, that doesn't mean you can play it. When I first picked up Fire as a main spec I spent 8 hours over the course of 2 days on a training dummy, just to see how the spec plays. What do I do in certain situations, how do I do it. 

WoW and Raiding Need Time. If you invest your time you'll become better.