6.1 Demonology Guide

[Alkeir 1]

It's not about how hard you get hit.  It's about how hard you get hit and keep fighting. 

*salutes*

[Mikedawg 4]

If you start with 200 fury, when do you dark soul and grimserv?

[Liquidsteel 279]

I do Grimoire: Doomguard at pull but don't cast Dark Soul til like 3 seconds later.

[vladMTL 1]

I do Grimoire: Doomguard at pull but don't cast Dark Soul til like 3 seconds later.

 

hey

 

could you post please the full opener rotation according to this ?

 

thank you !

[Liquidsteel 279]

Prepot and precast Soul Fire, then:

 

Grimoire: Doomguard

HoG

Corruption

Shadowbolt

HoG

Meta + Doom

Soul Fire > ToC

 

You can drop out of Meta and refresh 2 stack HoG then jump back in for a few more SF / ToC

 

Alternatively on 2+ Targets I will Chaos Wave.

[Alkeir 1]

Prepot and precast Soul Fire, then:

 

Grimoire: Doomguard

HoG

Corruption

Shadowbolt

HoG

Meta + Doom

Soul Fire > ToC

 

You can drop out of Meta and refresh 2 stack HoG then jump back in for a few more SF / ToC

 

Alternatively on 2+ Targets I will Chaos Wave.

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

 

Also, unrelated question. I was talking to a friend about precasting Soulfire vs Shadowbolt, and he claims that Shadowbolt has the potential to do more damage on pull than Soul Fire, but Soul Fire is more consistent. By this logic, he likes to use Shadowbolt>Soul Fire as a precast. What are you guys' opinions on this?

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

My issue personally doing this is that I barely have enough time to get my 2-stack HoG just casting Corruption->SB in between, so if I were to include Grimoire:Doomguard I would miss out on my 2-stack.

Disclaimer:I have terrible gear and would maybe be able to pull off what you suggest with way more haste, haste trinket, or Hero/lust up, but otherwise it wouldn't work for me.

[Alkeir 1]

My issue personally doing this is that I barely have enough time to get my 2-stack HoG just casting Corruption->SB in between, so if I were to include Grimoire:Doomguard I would miss out on my 2-stack.

Disclaimer:I have terrible gear and would maybe be able to pull off what you suggest with way more haste, haste trinket, or Hero/lust up, but otherwise it wouldn't work for me.

I can understand that, but I have plenty enough haste to make my opener previously stated fairly easy to execute.

[Janglybits 1]

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

 

Also, unrelated question. I was talking to a friend about precasting Soulfire vs Shadowbolt, and he claims that Shadowbolt has the potential to do more damage on pull than Soul Fire, but Soul Fire is more consistent. By this logic, he likes to use Shadowbolt>Soul Fire as a precast. What are you guys' opinions on this?

It's less about the damage, and more that SF will generate more Demonic Fury.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I do the Doomguard first because he lasts 25s (so longer than the duration of Dark Soul), but also because I want as many of his casts to be buffed by 10s procs; he does pack quite the punch.

 

Honestly though either way is fine and not a problem.

[Just1Number 0]

I have a question about cataclysm: I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata, but doom has a duration of 1 minute and cata has a CD of 1 minute and a cast time. So it is impossible to get 100% uptime with this method. When should I cast additional Dooms to get closer to 100% uptime, while wasting as little df as possible?

[Glorn 1]

After 6.1 I should never use DB as demo? So on strong AoE fights I go Cata and others servitude? I've been reading a couple of pages of this thread, reading the whole 35 will be painful so please clarify that for me. Is demo still performing best on most fights, even after DB nerf?

[Paracel 165]

I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

After 6.1 I should never use DB as demo? So on strong AoE fights I go Cata and others servitude? I've been reading a couple of pages of this thread, reading the whole 35 will be painful so please clarify that for me. Is demo still performing best on most fights, even after DB nerf?

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Paracel

[Glorn 1]

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

 

 

 

I guess cata is still the way to go on heavy aoe fights(operator),right? Other than that, what's the general rule when to use supremacy,service and synergy?

[Drkdragon 9]

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

I am getting really frustrated with myself. I have almost the same item level as you two but my dps is no where near yours. I am still running DB because I have not adjusted to the style of DServ yet.

 

Last Gruul kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dFPzgAQrphwLy4jZ#type=damage-done&fight=6

 

It's only normal. Not performing well enough for Heroic yet. Is there something I am flat out missing?

[Soulzar 42]

I have a question about cataclysm: I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata, but doom has a duration of 1 minute and cata has a CD of 1 minute and a cast time. So it is impossible to get 100% uptime with this method. When should I cast additional Dooms to get closer to 100% uptime, while wasting as little df as possible?

 

I usually refresh both between first and second Cata.  The remaining Pandemic time on Dooms duration should roll over the rest of the fight so long as your casting Cata on CD.

[gahhda 95]

It's less about the damage, and more that SF will generate more Demonic Fury.

 

You gain 5 DF and a minor amount of damage for 2 seconds of 1000 intellect. Either way it won't majorly impact dps, I just think shadowbolt is way more reliable.

[Paracel 165]

I guess cata is still the way to go on heavy aoe fights(operator),right? Other than that, what's the general rule when to use supremacy,service and synergy?

Pretty much yeah.

Synergy is my default choice with Cata, as it can proc with it for even more burst.

Supremacy can pull ahead when you have more sustained AoE from pet - like on Iron Maidens or Tectus.

 

I am getting really frustrated with myself. I have almost the same item level as you two but my dps is no where near yours. I am still running DB because I have not adjusted to the style of DServ yet.

 

Last Gruul kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dFPzgAQrphwLy4jZ#type=damage-done&fight=6

 

It's only normal. Not performing well enough for Heroic yet. Is there something I am flat out missing?

I believe i PM'ed you about this log.

[KoragonArt 0]

I got the mythic 695 crit/vers ring from my brf mission. Since vers is a shit stat, I'm not sure if it's an upgrade over my 685 haste/multi mythic HM ring.

Edited March 12, 2015 by KoragonArt

[spikeysquad 50]

For me the 695 is better. Vers yes is my worst stat as well but it's not that far behind the others to warrant giving up the extra intellect and other stats. 

[spikeysquad 50]

Apologies if this is somewhere else; yes Paracel I did look! So how do people use the DuT/a haste proc trinky most effectively? Is it a case of ignore and just build fury faster (haha) or do you enter Meta (with other stuff too) to bleed MC and fury faster? I gather haste doesn't have effect on ToC though. 

[Paracel 165]

Apologies if this is somewhere else; yes Paracel I did look! So how do people use the DuT/a haste proc trinky most effectively? Is it a case of ignore and just build fury faster (haha) or do you enter Meta (with other stuff too) to bleed MC and fury faster? I gather haste doesn't have effect on ToC though. 

Haste affects GCD duration, if I don't missing things. However, it's not that much to be supereffective with ToC.

I have DUT but I seldom use it for bleeding phases. Focusing on Ring proc instead.

[Liquidsteel 279]

The Haste proc is wasted for Meta. ToC gains almost nothing from it, and you want to spend MC procs under damage buffs as they are a much more precious resource.

[Nytemare 2]

I just got a heroic DUT, my current trinkets are Mythic SoN and CC. Would I replace the SoN or the CC? currently I just replaced the CC for now. Do I want to keep the On-Use effect for my burn until I can get another PPM trinket? Had no luck getting oregorger, and if everything goes well; we should down BH for the first time and maybe his trinket will drop / me bonus rolling it.

[spikeysquad 50]

Thank you Paracel and Liquidsteel; much as I had thought.