6.1 Demonology Guide

[Liquidsteel 279]

This guide is out of date; I don't have time to maintain it at the moment.

[Recklessfear 33]

This guide is out of date; I don't have time to maintain it at the moment.

 

I'd edit it, but I'm pretty busy myself over at the blizzard forums, and Zag is making a comeback to help keep everything up to date here.

[Alben 0]

Hello fellow Warlocks,

 

i'm quite new to the game, started at the end of Pandaria as destro, played all Highmaul as Affliction and

finally switched to Demo for BRF.

I have little experience in the playstyle really, but i'm really focused into learning and that's why i'm here with my question,

as when i put all the theory i've read into practice, there is a major issue i'm facing all the time!

 

Starting from right after the opener i have to wait for 2 minutes for dumping into DS/SF and in this long time i'm

building Fury and MC procs. To keep the thing simple let's assume ST scenario: 

After one RGN minute i have procs like ring, enchant, BMC, GSR, is it correct to save MC procs and therefore not casting SF

and going in meta instead and ToC?

I have understood that the whole "skill" of the spec is to get the feeling on how fast the resources are generated,

in order to try align ideally DS/SF dumps with all possible other procs, am i correct?

At the moment (ilvl 685 with 2 set only) i'm sitting around 30/32K ST (enought not to be kicked in pug but lower than i did in Affli) and really non consistent in Cata going anywhere from 35 to 55K,  so there is a loooot i need to master still, but my main issue is always the same, too much fury with too few MC procs.

Tomorrow evening will be my first "official" guild raid experience in Demo, so i will have some logs to share too, if you would like having something to laugh about ;)

Any help will be really appreciated, thank you!

[Paracel 165]

@Alben
Your bleed phases inbetween DS are filled with a spell of choice - ToC is fine, SF is better of course, but it really depends on your MC generation.

Alighning your DS and your procs is practically impossible task due to RNG nature. Best thing you can(and what you should do) is combining your DS with your resource(MC) for maximum efficiency.

Cata DPS in AoE scenarios is solely bound to 4pc bonus. Get it and you'll see a ridiculous increase.

[spikeysquad 50]

I tend to have the same problem sometimes Alben on ST that is but any time I or someone else has posted about it people tend to say it shouldn't actually happen or at least not often enough to notice. I was very haste heavy and hence I think my fury regeneration was actually too high if there is such a thing. Now I have swapped some gear around and have the 4 set it feels better but I haven't had chance to really raid with that set up yet. .  

 

So a couple of things to be aware of. MC procs come from chances on Imps and HoG. Therefore, make sure that Imp Swarm is unglyphed and ensure you are 2 stacking HoG correctly over CW (except for in some special circumstances). Once you have the 4 set you will get more HoGs=more MC procs. Be careful as well that you are not capping on MC procs by accident and missing it. 

 

I think you need to evaluate the strength of your procs to see where you ideally want to cast SFs. Here's a little list I made earlier though I am not sure it is actually that correct yet so check over the numbers before you take it at face value. Perhaps someone can comment on it please?

 

DS (30%, so 3300 I think, Mastery)

GSR HC (2304 Crit)

Potion (1000 Intellect)

BMC HC (up to 3140 Multistrike)

Synergy (15% damage. Not really sure where this belongs)

Ring Proc 710 (730 Intellect)

Weapon  (500 Mastery)

 

BL/TW (30% Haste) Haste is fury generation tool only

DuT HC (2304 haste) 

 

So can you now see how awesome DS is in comparison? I believe that it is ok to hold off on DS for a bit for GoServ, more resources or for a proc. The issue is if you do that too long each time you may then not actually get in an extra one at the end of a fight and you are missing that humongous buff in execute This is probably more important to be aware of when you have DS glyphed though.  

 

Capping fury is like a sin. It's such a waste so if it comes to it then yes ToC to drain some beats SB and being capped. In that situation I will try though to still bleed on damage procs even if I do not have MC procs spare. There could an argument made if you have 2+ short lived procs up for a CW but that is quite an advanced decision to make and not one I full understand yet so this definitely not a suggestion. On the whole HoG is much more win overall and at least on multi-target fights will net you more MC procs than CW.

 

I still struggle with Demo but keep practising with everything, it does get easier. Good luck with your raiding. Logs will be very helpful to see if you are going wrong somewhere but I think your ST dps sounds ok without the 4 set.
 

Edited April 7, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Alben 0]

Thanks for the answers really, this forum has always been a sort of a bible for me in these months.

 

I'm trying to link my toon while waiting for logs to come after tomorrow's first demo raid:

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/pozzo-delleternita/Occhiorosso/simple

 

and to be honest the dps numbers i gave came from LFR training environment, so i also need to build the theory

togheter with raid mechanics.

[Nytemare 2]

Just got MythicEye-Catching Gilded Robe from my cache. I currently have Mythic Toothbreaker Grips should I put on the robe and replace my Normal T-chest and then replace the hands with Heroic T-Gloves, or keep using Normal T-Chest and Mythic gloves?

 

AMR says I should do mythic chest + Heroic TGloves. But I am Demo and that makes me lose 4% Mastery for 2.58% Haste gain and 1.74% crit.

[Paracel 165]

Just got MythicEye-Catching Gilded Robe from my cache. I currently have Mythic Toothbreaker Grips should I put on the robe and replace my Normal T-chest and then replace the hands with Heroic T-Gloves, or keep using Normal T-Chest and Mythic gloves?

 

AMR says I should do mythic chest + Heroic TGloves. But I am Demo and that makes me lose 4% Mastery for 2.58% Haste gain and 1.74% crit.

Same ilvl gear pieces give you different amount of stats - if you compare gloves to chest, for example

Count the Int and you'll see it.

Whooping 30 ilvl of Int on a piece with your biggest stat amount is surely better than good stats and 15 ilvl difference on something that gives less stats just because it's different item slot.

Crit and Haste ain't worthless, btw. Your best and your worst stat are hella close in PP.

[Nytemare 2]

Same ilvl gear pieces give you different amount of stats - if you compare gloves to chest, for example

Count the Int and you'll see it.

Whooping 30 ilvl of Int on a piece with your biggest stat amount is surely better than good stats and 15 ilvl difference on something that gives less stats just because it's different item slot.

Crit and Haste ain't worthless, btw. Your best and your worst stat are hella close in PP.

 

Ok so Mythic Chest + Heroic TGloves. I saw chest was 30 ilevel more, but I also knew that the gloves were BIS off piece, so having them as Mythic made me question if chest was worth it.

 

Regarding haste/crit. Was mroe due to fact that gloves had Haste + Mastery combo we supposed to seek out as Demo, while the chest was just haste and Crit.

 

So we on the same page, once I get Heroic TChest that will replace the mythic one allowing me to use Mythic gloves instead right? Heroic TChest - Mythic chest = 15 ilevel, and Heroic TGloves - Mythic Gloves = 15ilevel, So in this case Off piece should be the mythic gloves due to stat desire?

[Liarparadox 5]

Trinket question. I currently have

 

Heroic GSR

Heroic BMC

 

but just picked up:

 

Mythic DUT

 

So, which combo to use in heroic BRF would be best? (demo: serv/serv)

I love the procs from GSR/BMC. Haste procs don't excite me but the intel on mythic DUT is pretty sweet.

[Liquidsteel 279]

GSR and DUT for Serv / Serv imo.

[Liarparadox 5]

Dang it. I was trying to guess what the answer would be and I came up with DUT and BMC for the passive intel. Guess the GSR proc is too strong to drop. Thanks for the reply; it's much appreciated.

[Glorn 1]

I know this is probably a minor issue, but what should I use, Blackhand Doomstaff or Dagger of Blazing radiance + Cagged Living Ooze

[spikeysquad 50]

This is using my own numbers...

 

The overall value amount of stats is very similar with the staff just winning. However, if you happened to be low on haste I would suggest the MH/OH combination.

 

You are so lucky! 

[Glorn 1]

What do you consider low? I have 10.76% unbuffed.

[spikeysquad 50]

Well I was sporting 17% unbuffed but that felt too high.

 

What's your crit? Is your fury generation ok or too fast/slow?

 

Ultimately though the decision is very very close and all of this is probably a pointless discussion. (Which I am quite sure that Liquidsteel will say soon enough!)

[Glorn 1]

Actually I feel like my fury generation is a bit too slow, so I guess I should be running more haste. My char http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Glorrn/advanced

Edited April 9, 2015 by Glorn

[spikeysquad 50]

Well if you actually have all 3 weapons already you could consider running the haste stuff on say Gruul/where ever you think you need more fury and the crit staff on more AoE fights. I think that would be the correct way around but do not quote me on it!

 

Perhaps have a play around and see if there is any noticable improvement but we are actually only talking 0.67% haste so no major changes anyhow. I ended up crafting some gear to rebalance my stats and so far it feels better but have been waiting until tonight to really try it out. 

[Liarparadox 5]

I tried out mythic DUT trinket last night, seemed fine. But wondering about best actions to take when it procs. Is there anything in particular I should be doing? It's a haste proc so maybe not a whole lot to do other than enjoy the quicker shadow bolts/SFs.

 

One thought I had was this: if i'm in meta just burning off fury with Touch of Chaos and it procs, then get back into caster form and spam SB for proc then pop back in meta and keep burning. Any issue with doing this to take advantage of the haste since TC spam while it procs seems like a horrible waste for GCDs?

[Liquidsteel 279]

I tried out mythic DUT trinket last night, seemed fine. But wondering about best actions to take when it procs. Is there anything in particular I should be doing? It's a haste proc so maybe not a whole lot to do other than enjoy the quicker shadow bolts/SFs.

 

One thought I had was this: if i'm in meta just burning off fury with Touch of Chaos and it procs, then get back into caster form and spam SB for proc then pop back in meta and keep burning. Any issue with doing this to take advantage of the haste since TC spam while it procs seems like a horrible waste for GCDs?

The Haste proc is to be used as a Fury generator. Sure, if it procs during a DS dump it helps you burn through your MC stacks quicker, but overall it's main purpose is to increase Fury generation. It's nice if it procs during a HoG stack, too.

 

I did want to address one thing you said though, Liar. 

 

" if i'm in meta just burning off fury with Touch of Chaos and it procs, then get back into caster form and spam SB for proc then pop back in meta and keep burning"

 

In what scenarios do you find yourself doing large Fury dumps with ToC?

 

Between Dark Soul, Archmage's and GSR there's usually plenty of opportunity to dump Soul Fires in Meta. I'm concerned you're wasting MC stacks in caster and ignoring procs during the conserve phase, leading to you reaching max fury with nothing and needing to burn. You should know that if you have 500 Fury and 5 MC stacks with a minute left on Dark Soul that it's fine to hop into Meta when your GSR or Ring proc is active and dump a few Soul Fires.

 

I never find myself do big ToC burns and it should be avoided where possible through careful planning.

[Liarparadox 5]

I always pop into meta and burn off MC procs during GSR, and when DS/Serv is up of course. I didn't know that about the extra use of DS at 1 min with procs, which makes perfect sense to me. But perhaps where I am going wrong is I'm not confident about the exact proc conditions under which to burn off the rest of MCs and TC. I'd love as detailed of a list as possible with procs/combo of procs and what to do. I switched to DUT, but still curious about what to do with BMC.

GSR procs. What do I do? Meta: MC burns

Ring proc? Meta:TC ? Stay in caster?

BMC? Meta:TC? MC? Stay in caster?

BMC+Ring: Meta: MC or TC? Stay in caster?

DUT? Nothing special Fury generator

DUT+ring?

DUT+ring+weapon?

Weapon proc? stay caster? Meta: TC?

Weapon +ring? Caster? Meta: TC?

Weapon + BMC? Caster? Meta: TC or MC?

So many combos and maybe it’s not fair to ask for such a detailed rule set. My guess is it can be simplified to some degree by making the following type of claims: whenever GSR procs, regardless of combo go into Meta and MC dump. Maybe others can be simplified like that so the combos don't matter so much? But my guess is that some lesser combos will tip the scale from "ignore and stay in caster" to "go into Meta and do x"

I've been leaving MC for DS and GSR (though I admit I burn of high MC procs in caster sometimes because I haven’t been paying attention to DS/Serv and I notice it’s up; I know, that’s horrible!)

But maybe my problem-or rather one of them—is I haven't been popping into Meta enough for quick TC spams when lesser procs happen (or maybe some procs other than GSR/DS call for MC burns).

I've read ring proc isn't good enough to do anything with (though maybe that's a reference to 690 ring), read mixed things about weapon proc as well.

Maybe this will help, here's a Gruul kill log. I don't have 4pc yet, and here I was using BMC. I’ll admit I panic with demo in fights. I’ve played aff/destro since TBC and only this tier switched to demo. So any help is greatly appreciated.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XcfzBDAgNymxHk3n#fight=4

Armory

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Liarparadox/advanced

Liquid, I think you're probably correct that I do too big of TC fury dumps and they should probably be broken up more with lesser procs. Just want to make sure which procs are worth doing that with. I'll have to keep an eye out for my caster mc usage as well.

[Mikedawg 4]

What Demo spec are people using for killing (not padding) Beastlord? Cata? 

[Liarparadox 5]

I think people are usually running serv/serv unless for some reason your group has very weak aoe dmg. I ran in a pug group where it was the adds wiping us; no one was switching to them, at all, so I switched to Cata; but that was awhile ago and I suspect it's pretty rare now to be in a group that doesn't have strong aoe. The adds have such low health cata seems like a waste. (I'm talking about heroic, no clue about mythic)

[Liarparadox 5]

GSR and DUT for Serv / Serv imo.

I meant to follow up this up with another question

1. Am I correct in assuming that GSR/BMC combo is better for cleave/aoe fights with Cata/synergy?

[Liarparadox 5]

GSR procs. What do I do? Meta: MC burns

Ring proc? Meta:TC ? Stay in caster?

BMC? Meta:TC? MC? Stay in caster?

BMC+Ring: Meta: MC or TC? Stay in caster?

DUT? Nothing special Fury generator

DUT+ring?

DUT+ring+weapon?

Weapon proc? stay caster? Meta: TC?

Weapon +ring? Caster? Meta: TC?

Weapon + BMC? Caster? Meta: TC or MC?

I should have added synergy procs in there as well. It seems like such a strong proc that meta is worth popping. But then: TC or MC? TBH I think I love some dps on this, cause for some reason I never set up my weakauras to include synergy.