6.1 Demonology Guide

[gahhda 95]

Like I've been saying, optimal DB usage only really happens with AD + glyph of ds. Cutting either of those out royally fucks you over in the long term because of the nature of DB cycling. We're talking ~5% dps loss here between ad + glyph, and kjc/mf + no glyph. It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not exactly game breaking.

 

Imp swarm also cuts sustained damage by about 2.4% or so, just slightly more than mop. It is, however, very good for fights that last <4.5 minutes or so (ie butcher).

 

The 'optimal opener' isn't an opener. The best way we've found to 'open' is to specifically not open until 480 DF is generated. You wait until you generate 480 df, then pop full cds + meta and spam DB out.

 

Trinkets aren't massively powerful, and a lot of them are now passive and/or on use. There isn't really a reason to try to push out as much damage as possible in the first 4-8 seconds of a fight. You're perfectly fine delaying your stuff by a few seconds to bank some DF, and then doing massively larger damage a few seconds into the fight.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm still learning stuff since I had an 11 day handicap where I didn't touch the game.  Just verifying what I've read and seen and not yet experienced.  I wasn't sure if you should ever delay it or not, but I can definitely see why you always use the glyph. 

 

Is AD absoutely essential?  Aren't you just getting one more +30% DB phase?  Is that worth giving up guaranteed KJC every time you DB cycle so you never interrupt yourself with movement?

[Adrammalech 2]

Yes AD + DS glyph is a definite dps increase. It isn't just simply one more stronger DB cycle. The fact that you take them both allows not only for DS to come off CD quicker and line up almost perfectly time wise for you DB dump(10 second duration max of 4 DBs @ 8 seconds total), but also allows flexibility in when you cast DS. Since you can store the extra charge, You basically just cast DS for a demonbolt cycle if it is up. If you DS comes up and you are still waiting for a DB cycle then you can hold on to it and not have to worry about the CD because the next charge is charging. You end up having DS up for 70% of your DB cycles since it easily cover's 2/3rds of them but you start off with 2 charges so it is slightly more. 

 

Edit: That being said you can also opt into going a build where you take service along with having 2 on use trinkets (copeland's and shards). Using this method you only have DS for every 3 DB cycles but that cycle is also always going to have trinkets up for it along with service being strong as hell. This is the build I have been using until the DS bug gets fixed. It also works wonders on short fights if you take imp swarm and allows you to use 3 DBs during your opener if you open up with your doom guard as well.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Adrammalech

[Serial 0]

should we cast x3 DB if we don't have fury for x4 DB when the debuff falls, or should we wait for enough fury to cast 4 DBs? I'm kinda having this problem right now =|

[Liquidsteel 279]

Think it's best to just cast 3 and carry on.

[Adrammalech 2]

As long as you have enough fury for 2, you want to go ahead and cast it and move on, which should never ever be an issue. Therefore cast DB as soon as the debuff falls off.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Adrammalech

[Soulzar 42]

Last night we did a Normal clear and I decided to get some more practice in with Demo and it did very well.  I played Demonbolt/KJC/GoSyn and KJC is kinda awesome.  Can either be used to ensure you can continue to hard cast fury generators to not mess up timing on DB dumps, or can be used to ensure you don't get interrupted during your DB dump.  I used for both Twins and Tectus.... Kar'gath, Butcher, and Ko'ragh I used AD... Braken and Imp I played Destro.. because Havoc.

 

I had a Demonbolt hit for over 200k on Twins!  

 

RL was not running logs sadly as I wanted to go over after to see where I could improve.  I will have to start doing personal logs.  Based off memory, on Twins I was doing 30k going into the execute phase.. fubbed it up and ended somewhere between 26-27k, though was still very happy with the kill.

 

I was also very pleased with Demo Single target on Butcher and Bladefist. 

 

I'm torn what I want to play on Mythic tonight for Bladefist... lol

[Deamux 4]

So regarding Demonbolt; best output will be achieved by using DS glyph, that seems set in stone. 

Basically, you're nitpicking very small numbers, but it will have SOME impact.  Overall, I suggest glyphing Dark Soul and delaying it for DB but only if you can do this perfectly on schedule every time.  Not glyphing it is ok and will make your opening burst even more powerful. 

 

Basicly use glyph DS and delay DS to line up nicely with Demonbolt spam/awesomeness. But beware that you have a very narrow window here and it's crucial to be able to plan your feet for a while. That being said I might not use the glyph for some fights since we are not too familiar with all the fights yet as a guild or when a fights demands too much movement. But thus far that doesn't seem to be the case. Might put out slightly (very) lower numbers but still better than causing trouble.

 

Like I've been saying, optimal DB usage only really happens with AD + glyph of ds. Cutting either of those out royally fucks you over in the long term because of the nature of DB cycling. We're talking ~5% dps loss here between ad + glyph, and kjc/mf + no glyph. It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not exactly game breaking.

 

So again theorycraft confirms that AD + glyphed DS will bring out most damage. And delaying demonbolt is a total no-go considering these talents according to you Gahhda? That is basicly the only thing about demonbolt & the glyph & AD that isn't clear as a crystal to me. Zagam seems to think it's the way to go, so is there a decisive answer for that ?

[CarlosFS 0]

I have a problem, and big one , you see, i am a raider as a Demonology Warlock and i absolutely hate playing as a destruction , but my DPS, is a little garbage right now and i dont know what i am doing wrong and i fear for my safety in the core.... i will post my informations here to check if you guys could help me 

thanks. 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/goldrinn/Malacath/simple - Armory.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AQp3xRzHgGJNBa14#fight=4 .

[Liquidsteel 279]

Gear

 

- Gem your cloak. Also why are you still using two sub 630 blue items. Your gloves and trinket should easily be 630 by now, go spam some heroic dungeons to get what you need, it's basically free gear.

 

Logs

 

 - On Kargath your corruption uptime was 85% and Doom 95%. Get these both to 98%+

 - Your Hand of Gul'dan usage was poor. You got out of sync and kept casting one at a time. You need to stack the DoT better.

 - You opted to cast 3x Demonbolts per cycle. You used them well with Dark Soul and everything looks fine.

 - You didn't use a second potion. You forgot to use your on-use trinket other than at the start. Bind it / track it / use it!

 - You cast A LOT of touch of chaos' for a relatively short fight. I know you were using 3x Demonbolt strat, but perhaps this could be a reason for low DPS in that you wasted a lot of Fury on them. Most likely movement and poor planning around it caused your low dps. 

 

Fix some of the above issues and you should see an increase across the board.

[Luvlockdown 0]

Hi,

 

I would like to know more about the values of Demonic Fury as to at which value you should activate Metamorphis and if you should let it run out or cancel it at a certain amount?

 

Thank you!

[Lockybalboa 618]

Build DF, enter meta at 850, nuke phase, exit, repeat.

[Zagam 1,982]

Build DF, enter meta at 850, nuke phase, exit, repeat.

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

[sbVital 2]

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

 

I was having DPS issues with Tectus but this may be my problem. On fights like Tectus, I should be using the 3 DB method instead of 4, making sure I Doom the split adds?

[Gnar 26]

I was having DPS issues with Tectus but this may be my problem. On fights like Tectus, I should be using the 3 DB method instead of 4, making sure I Doom the split adds?

 You should use Cataclysm for Doom application for the motes and whenever else its CD is ready. For the non mote phases, multidot as much as you can and HoG stack cleave if you tank the bosses together (most don't).

[Gnar 26]

And now why I came here.  Does anyone else just hate the Demonbolt playstyle.  Yeah I know it's mad damage and shit and does fine even outside of procs and all but I feel robbed off my trinket nuke window snapshotting skills.  All I do now is save a few SF outside of meta for rppm procs if I have an rppm on. Anyone else or am I a lone soldier who will fall victim to the "DEMONBOLT IS SO FUN LOOK AT THE DAMAGES" people who seem to sway Blizzard into doing things like removing personal loot form dungeons for a day.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Not a huge fan of DemonBolt also. I'd like to at least have more options.

[Zagam 1,982]

And now why I came here.  Does anyone else just hate the Demonbolt playstyle.  Yeah I know it's mad damage and shit and does fine even outside of procs and all but I feel robbed off my trinket nuke window snapshotting skills.  All I do now is save a few SF outside of meta for rppm procs if I have an rppm on. Anyone else or am I a lone soldier who will fall victim to the "DEMONBOLT IS SO FUN LOOK AT THE DAMAGES" people who seem to sway Blizzard into doing things like removing personal loot form dungeons for a day.

Makes it feel an awful lot like Destruction, doesn't it?  Sad that optimal Metamorphosis uptime is something near 18-20% when it used to be 40%.  Burst phases FEEL weak because of how little time we spend in it. 

 

I'm sad that the alternatives are Destruction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Incinerate, and Affliction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Drain Soul.  So much fun.  Fun is, of course, subjective, so some may find the specs fun, but I'm pretty bored of Warlocks only 4 weeks in and I missed 10 days. 

 

I dinged 100 on my Death Knight last night and it was ridiculous how powerful I was compared to where my Warlock was at level 100.  It's also a LOT of fun.  The quickness between Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frost Strike and laying down mother-effing Defile is fun to me. 

 

I'm hoping some changes come tonight/tomorrow, but it's a faint hope at best.

[gahhda 95]

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

 

Keeep in mind the fact that a majority of our DF generation on 2+ targets comes from doom (wild imps) + corruption + hog. Doom doesn't actually become DF neutral until uhhh..well math:

 

I'm assuming 4 ticks because fuck partial haste tick bullshit.

 

( 60 / 50 ) / 4 = 0.3

 

30% crit needed for a doom to pay for itself.

 

By the end of the tier a demo lock running m > c = m > h > v will have ~20% crit chance. So..

 

( x / 50 ) / 4 = 0.2

( x / 50 ) = 0.8

x = 40

 

By the end of the tier we can expect doom to pay off 2/3rds of it's cost.

 

But again, adding a second corruption, which is actually a LOT MORE of our DF generation than people think, actually makes it a bit easier to maintain higher DB stacks on MT than ST.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, if I spent time multi-dotting Corruption in 5 mans, I found myself overflowing on DF.  They made it to where keeping DoTs up is super important, which is good. 

 

Also, G, are you factoring in Doom's perk of 20% additional crit chance bonus? 

[gahhda 95]

Makes it feel an awful lot like Destruction, doesn't it?  Sad that optimal Metamorphosis uptime is something near 18-20% when it used to be 40%.  Burst phases FEEL weak because of how little time we spend in it. 

 

I'm sad that the alternatives are Destruction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Incinerate, and Affliction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Drain Soul.  So much fun.  Fun is, of course, subjective, so some may find the specs fun, but I'm pretty bored of Warlocks only 4 weeks in and I missed 10 days. 

 

I dinged 100 on my Death Knight last night and it was ridiculous how powerful I was compared to where my Warlock was at level 100.  It's also a LOT of fun.  The quickness between Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frost Strike and laying down mother-effing Defile is fun to me. 

 

I'm hoping some changes come tonight/tomorrow, but it's a faint hope at best.

 

Warlocks are perfectly fine, melee needs nerfs, not warlock buffs.

[gahhda 95]

Yeah, if I spent time multi-dotting Corruption in 5 mans, I found myself overflowing on DF.  They made it to where keeping DoTs up is super important, which is good. 

 

Also, G, are you factoring in Doom's perk of 20% additional crit chance bonus? 

 

( 60 / 50 ) / 4  = ( x - 0.2 ) 

( x - 0.2 ) = 0.3

x = 0.1

 

10% required to pay it off, so in bis BRF gear running a moderately high crit build:

 

( x / 50 ) / 4 = ( 0.2 + 0.2 )

 

x / 50 = 1.6

 

x = 80

 

A doom in bis will net you + 20 DF.

 

Side note, I'd like to point out that:

 

Demonology spends 59% of it's time hitting SF/SB.

Destruction spends 61.5% of it's time hitting incinerate.

Affliction spends 69.7% of it's time hitting drain soul.

 

This hasn't changed since last expansion, all warlock specs spend ~the same time hitting bullshit fillers. It just feels like demo is less mundane because the bullshit fillers are broken into 3 spells, that all do basically the exact same thing, deal damage and/or generate DF.

Edited December 15, 2014 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,982]

Warlocks are perfectly fine, melee needs nerfs, not warlock buffs.

I agree.  But I doubt they'll take the time to balance nerfs for multiple classes.  Then again, nothing they do suprises me anymore.  Time to get 2200 on my DK before massive nerfs. 

 

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...sec.

Gotta love dem perks, right?  This perk is the reason that I suggest such an emphasis on 3 DB cycle so that you can keep Doom up all the time.  Someone getting to 20% Crit on their sheet DPS is going to have 40% with Doom.  If you only have 4 ticks, you're almost guaranteed for each one to pay for itself.  Probability of not getting one crit with a 40% chance on 4 ticks is 12.96%.  If you have 5 ticks, the odds go down to 7.77%.  Assuming some raid Haste, 5 ticks is going to pay for itself 92.3% of the time.

[Gnar 26]

I really hope you are right Zag and that some minor hotfixes go live but I doubt it happens since I've heard nothing.  Until then, my monk still has great trinket window burst so I'll get my fix that way.

[Zagam 1,982]

Hotfixes announced - Warlocks ignored.  Make do the best you can.