6.1 Demonology Guide

[Cardio33 3]

I'm sure this was covered somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it.  Can anyone please explain to me the ideal burst aoe rotation?  I am just brushing off demon from MOP and it's very different.  I saw some mentions about Chaos wave vs HoG.

 

As an example, who do you aoe against Tectus?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Imp Swarm is not a DPS gain. 

However, it does not affect your pure damage. You still can cast only 2/3/4 DB, regardless of your haste. And they won't punch more because you have Shards/Bloodlust. That's why haste isn't that good on Demo.

 

I'd be careful with such blanket statements. You need to be more specific. "Imp Swarm is not a DPS gain in the long run" would be more appropriate.

 

It IS a gain if used to provide additional burst during something like Spine of Deathwing, and can still be extremely effective on short fights. On something like Butcher you can get 3 casts off on a 3 and a half minute fight. Having those imps out with a high uptime on buffs is pretty decent.

[Furyio 3]

Had an enjoyable run with Demo through the farm content we could do last night before time ran out on the raid. 

 

It was rough at the start, but around Imperator normal felt like I got the rotation down tight, and finished a lot higher then I normally would. 

 

Kept that up through Kargath HM and then Tectus HM I had pretty much a shocking finish, in third place (dropped from second in literally the last second) Raid was positively commenting on how they were noticeable improvements in my DPS and output. 

 

Granted there is work to do, hopefully can go into tonights run and Sunday building on the comfort I started feeling towards the second half of last nights raid. Also realised I didn't pop my Doomguard once :( So used to having it out 100%of the time in Destro, forgot I need to pop it again :D So that's something to remember. 

 

I also keep getting put on things like cleave management on Bucther, Flamethrower on Bracken etc. So unfortuantely I never get a good indication of what I'm doing on some of the staple fights like Butcher. Also last nights attempt was a mess. Two seconds into the fight I'm told to move into one of the cleave groups, and then start managing it. Totally threw me off my rotation, annoying :( 

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zWqt8fFdAJ26V93G/

 

Feedback, comments and critique welcome, always eager to learrn :) 

[Bitemeplease 1]

Hello, i've a few questions again...

 

 

I have been experimenting on demo for mythic twins and trying out demon bolt build and cataclysm build and i was wondering which have been better for you guys?

 

I find myself wondering what to dump fury on while using cataclysm build, my understanding is that you should meta and dump fury following these priorities

 

1. Cataclysm (of course)

2. Chaos Wave (yes? no? or do you save it for HoG)

3. Soul Fire

4. Touch of  Chaos 

 

Question 1: Abit confused about how to spend charges  for HoG, i guess with cata build you could spend additional fury on Chaos Wave instead? (but i've heard the difference between the 2 isn't that significant so I guess if you have extra fury to dump chaos wave on that's better for cata builds at least?)

 

Question 2:  Also, is there a significant dps gain over using soulfire on molten procs in meta form or can you choose to dump fury on ToC during movement fights (like what sparkuggz did in his video - noticed that he didn't use soul fire at all in meta but spammed ToC like crazy) 

 

Noob Question: Anybody figured out a way to disable the irritating "wing-ish" spell highlight that surrounds your character during molten core procs? Found it to be way too big and bright for my liking :>

[spikeysquad 50]

Noob Question: Anybody figured out a way to disable the irritating "wing-ish" spell highlight that surrounds your character during molten core procs? Found it to be way too big and bright for my liking :>

 

Hey Bite,

 

If we are thinking of the same thing then untick Interface options>Combat>Show Spell Alerts

[Eddie 16]

If Chaos wave will hit 2 or more targets, it is a DPS gain. Single target, use HoG.

[vaeevictiss 17]

quick question, not sure if it was answered in this thread...

 

should i be waiting for 2 stacks of HoG while in combat so i can doublestack shadowflame or should i just use it as its up and whenever i happen to doublestack shadowflame thats fine.

 

as for chaos wave, when do i use it if im pretty much using meta for spamming DB?

[Soulzar 42]

 

Feedback, comments and critique welcome, always eager to learrn

 

Looks like you need to work on your opener.  I took a look at a few pulls for Butcher and You are not using Meta (Demonbolting) for upwards to 20 seconds into the fight.  By this time your prepot has worn off, generally ICD trinekts, legendary ring proc once you get it.  Losing a lot of dmg without that opening burst.  

 

You do not want to build up for a standard dump on pull.  You want to get two demon bolts off and doom up asap.  Pop your DG on pull, corruption, hog two SF/SB(3 with lust), Hog.. and meta for doom and two DB's then build up for first full fury dump.

[Soulzar 42]

Hello, i've a few questions again...

 

 

I have been experimenting on demo for mythic twins and trying out demon bolt build and cataclysm build and i was wondering which have been better for you guys?

 

I find myself wondering what to dump fury on while using cataclysm build, my understanding is that you should meta and dump fury following these priorities

 

1. Cataclysm (of course)

2. Chaos Wave (yes? no? or do you save it for HoG)

3. Soul Fire

4. Touch of  Chaos 

 

Question 1: Abit confused about how to spend charges  for HoG, i guess with cata build you could spend additional fury on Chaos Wave instead? (but i've heard the difference between the 2 isn't that significant so I guess if you have extra fury to dump chaos wave on that's better for cata builds at least?)

 

Question 2:  Also, is there a significant dps gain over using soulfire on molten procs in meta form or can you choose to dump fury on ToC during movement fights (like what sparkuggz did in his video - noticed that he didn't use soul fire at all in meta but spammed ToC like crazy) 

 

 

DB on twins is better than cata, especially now after the latest buffs.  Cata does just fine though and allots your to trivialize movement.  DB requires a bit better planning because nothing sucks more than a 10s darksoul if you have to move for fire.  Cata the only real requirement is that you always hit both bosses with every Cata.

 

ToC is used fairly liberally with a Cata build as you will have tons of fury coming in.  You get enough MC stacks with two dooms and two HoG rolling to use SF over SB almost all the time in caster, only needing to start banking charges 20s or so before your 2min ds cycles.. where you drop your cata and unload the rest of your fury in soul fires.

 

Any time I am using ToC I am switching between the two bosses to make sure its maxing the duration of Corruption.

 

DB, you can still use ToC for short movement stints to avoid fire, but try to avoid it as its a huge slow down to your DB cycle.

 

I played DB for the first time on Mythic twins this week and blew away my previous best... GG buffs, I was also wearing my Stormwind Teleport cloak.. lol

[Soulzar 42]

quick question, not sure if it was answered in this thread...

 

should i be waiting for 2 stacks of HoG while in combat so i can doublestack shadowflame or should i just use it as its up and whenever i happen to doublestack shadowflame thats fine.

 

as for chaos wave, when do i use it if im pretty much using meta for spamming DB?

 

I have not seen any real Theorycrafting sine the buffs, but you want to leave HoG off cd until ~5s on second charge and double stack wherever possible.  I don't see CW being effective at all in A DB build, since its pure single target.  Try casting on a dummy without using HoG and see how retarded slow your fury gain is.  DB needs HoG fury income IMO.

[Cardio33 3]

Looking at some of the top parses over the last 2-3 days since buffs shows people are definitely using chaos wave on aoe encounters.

For tectus, imp, and kor'gath it looks like they are goin: Dark Soul -> meta -> cata + wrath storm -> 2xchaos waves, back into caster form and spread corruption till chaos wave is back up.

It's also interesting to see no one is using mammoths fury as there is zero damage coming from hellfire/immolation

Burst aoe is pretty basic but I'm curious how warlocks sustain aoe to push >50k dps numbers on mythic tectus.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Chaos Wave was already great under Dark Soul on burst AoE scenarios. The buff just made it even better.

 

For Mythic Tectus, you have 10 targets, Bloodlust, Potion, Dark Soul, Trinket and hopefully weapon and ring procs.

 

You drop a GoServ Felguard, AoE Infernal, then go ham as you mentioned with Cata / CW. If people like you then get a BoP for when you cast Cata to guarantee it goes off.

[Scathbais 1]

I use Shards proc as a fury generator once my first full fury dump is done.

 

I just got mythic Shards last night.  How do you use it with Copeland's?  My thought it to use Copeland's with Demonbolt/Cata and as Soulzar suggested, use Shards between as a fury generator.

 

Alternatively, using it 1 minute apart from Copeland's and together with DS/Demonbolt (assuming glyph of Dark Soul) would reduce the cool down on demon bolt. Not sure this would work.  

 

Any additional ideas would be appreciated.

 

Note:  I also have 665 Sandman trinket and am reasonable sure Shards+Copeland is the best combo of the three.  Will sim it out for myself when I get home from work tonight.

[yibsu 1]

Looking at some of the top parses over the last 2-3 days since buffs shows people are definitely using chaos wave on aoe encounters.

For tectus, imp, and kor'gath it looks like they are goin: Dark Soul -> meta -> cata + wrath storm -> 2xchaos waves, back into caster form and spread corruption till chaos wave is back up.

It's also interesting to see no one is using mammoths fury as there is zero damage coming from hellfire/immolation

Burst aoe is pretty basic but I'm curious how warlocks sustain aoe to push >50k dps numbers on mythic tectus.

 

 

Is there actually any point to Dark Soul before you Cataclysm? Mastery doesn't affect it, so I think you are just wasting 2.5 sec of DS. I might be wrong but what I've been doing is using Copelands/Pot before Cata then DS right after for the double Chaos Wave.

Edited January 15, 2015 by yibsu

[Drafty53 17]

Is there actually any point to Dark Soul before you Cataclysm? Mastery doesn't affect it, so I think you are just wasting 2.5 sec of DS. I might be wrong but what I've been doing is using Copelands/Pot before Cata then DS right after for the double Chaos Wave.

Mastery increases all damage you and your pet do. Yes you don't get the added effects like you do on the select spells in the tooltip like TiC, SF, etc. But overall, the mastery buff will increase your cata damage so it is worth it IMO.

[Yarilo 1]

I just got mythic Shards last night.  How do you use it with Copeland's?  My thought it to use Copeland's with Demonbolt/Cata and as Soulzar suggested, use Shards between as a fury generator.

I was playing with this combination last night on mythic butcher and it worked really well. I used shard on the pull with lust to get a short cd on Imp swarm and used copeland's with 4 Db and DS 20 second later. It works well for a 4m fight since I didn't lose uptime but anything longer than that it might get tricky.

[Liquidsteel 279]

With Lust and Shards Demonbolt CD is like 20s anyway. You're better off doing 3x DB in the opener (with Imp Swarm this is trivial) then getting another 3x DB with Copelands 30s later.

[Bombsauce 3]

Been running Mythic Warforged Shards of Nothing + sandman's pouch. I'm saving the on-use after the first full 850 fury dump, and for aoe popping the on use and double stacking HoG. Seems to be working out fine.

[Yarilo 1]

With Lust and Shards Demonbolt CD is like 20s anyway. You're better off doing 3x DB in the opener (with Imp Swarm this is trivial) then getting another 3x DB with Copelands 30s later.

Forgot to mention it but I was casting demonbolt on the pull. I just did 2 and 4 though.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Forgot to mention it but I was casting demonbolt on the pull. I just did 2 and 4 though.

No real evidence to say 3x is better than 2x on pull anyway, I just assumed with Imp Swarm that's what you were doing.

[Soulzar 42]

I use my CC on the pull to line up with Prepot/Ring proc, even if I only get 2DBs with all those procs up instead of 4 with a later CC.

 

On Butcher with Hero on pull, I would dump my opening two DB, and build up to 700 or so fury before the 20s duration of CC was done, pop Shards to push 850 and catch that proc and final seconds of hero for the second 4DB dump. 

 

I tested Imp swarm the other night and really did not like it.  I found my 3rd fury build once hero was done was way to slow due to no imps out and less MC procs... where as on pull, my fury gain was higher than it really needed to be.  Imps don't do shit for dmg anymore so the value of lining them up with procs is kinda moot now... and I don't see a reason to need more fury generation on pull with heroism than you already get.

[Roblinz 0]

Supremacy or Synergy? The guide says supremacy but I've seen people say Synergy lately. 

[JvChequer 43]

Supremacy or Synergy? The guide says supremacy but I've seen people say Synergy lately.

 

Synergy tends to be way better with some luck but Supremacy gives u more reliable damage

Edited January 17, 2015 by JvChequer

[Nytemare 2]

So I got both CC and Heroic Shards, as destro I do CC with DS then pop Shards 30 sec later. For demo how would I go about handle that? Using the Demonbolt talent  + DS glyph + AD (think that what I see taken) do I do Shards with DS in opener then wait until I ready to do 4x DB then pop DS + CC for that part? and just rinse and repeat them? with DarkSoul being 1min, using each trinket with a DS + DB burn.

 

Also do we still want to aim for the following; 

Mastery >= Haste (10%) > Crit = Multistrike > Haste = Versatility

 

and is the idea opener still 

 

•Pre-Pot +  Soul Fire
• Hand of Gul'dan
• Corruption
• Shadow Bolt
• Dark Soul: Knowledge +  Hand of Gul'dan
• Metamorphosis +  Doom
• Demonbolt
• Demonbolt
• Soul Fire until out of  Molten Core charges then Touch of Chaos

 

During the nuke of getting off 4x Demon Bolt, do I just pop out of meta manually and reapply corruption when needed, or spam ToC until it pops me out. Using WA locky made, I been waiting until it says Burn and DS off cd to pop into meta, but sometimes I popped back out after 4x DB and other times I not as I gained some more fury. Right now I just been just using a combo of wither ToC or MC SF until I popped out, but I expect that is wrong to do.

 

I also read do do DB burn soon as debuff falls off is that still the way or is waiting for DS proven as we get higher gear (currently 6/7H)  better to wait for Dark Soul and have enough fury for 4x DB

Edited January 19, 2015 by Nytemare

[Zinthar 2]

Regarding your opener, is it established that it's worth it to stay in demon form while casting Soul Fire (and a ToC) after getting your doom and Demon Bolts off?  Generally I'd think you'd want to get out of it ASAP so that you can spend as much fury as possible on the next round of demon bolts, but there might be an exception when you're under the effect of both the intellect pot and DS.