6.1 Demonology Guide

[Drkdragon 9]

Wouldn't you mind fetching logs?

I've been totally fine yesterday at our Normal 9/10 clear.

Even nerfed DB still got me and my guild wlock 2 spots in a top 3 on Gruul, losing ~100dps to WW monk.

85-95% percentile Aff play on pretty much all the rest of the fights been OK, too.

I guess it's still "beat the Balance Druid - beat them all" kind of game for me

DB parses will be ranging from fight to fight still, depending on your personal skill progression / RNG procs / Good crits or multistrikes.

It does not seem like that much of a DPS loss, compared to what I've expected.

 

Do you have logs Paracel? would like to go over what you are doing and compare it to my play.

[Paracel 165]

Do you have logs Paracel? would like to go over what you are doing and compare it to my play.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/38819

Our guild log page.

We're scrubs, though

[Drkdragon 9]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/38819

Our guild log page.

We're scrubs, though

Was completely spacing off the Russian part. Those are kind of hard for me to read lol.

[Paracel 165]

Was completely spacing off the Russian part. Those are kind of hard for me to read lol.

There is an awesome "translate" button, top left corner.

 

[Drkdragon 9]

There is an awesome "translate" button, top left corner.

 

Well I'll be damned. Thank you!

[cicerovivikta 0]

Sadly It seems I failed to understand the ongoing 6.1 discussion well especially the MC stacks/fury management. I was horrible last night at heroic BRF 1-9 run, then started to blame my second language skill again. (It is true actually, please forgive my poor English further!)

Apparently I am losing the confidence on the building phase(demon soul on CD) balancing between MC stacks and demonic fury. This is what I had planned for the quick adaptation (and failed)- when demon soul CD is left more than 60 seconds, even in a low fury state I spend some fury mostly on meta soul fire aligned with the legendary ring, synergy, or weapon enchant proc. Then I try to obtain 6+ MC stacks with 800+ fury when Demon soul is less than 45 seconds in order to have soulfires as many as possible for the burning phase. I dump them as soon as demon soul is ready.

Problem lies that all those dynamic components make me hesitate at certain points like 'is it okay to cast SF in a caster form in low fury/high MC stacks', 'should I delay my demon soul for synergy proc', 'spamming toc to farm MC stacks when high fury/low MC stacks is genuine?', and so on. I have no experience in MoP and meta/soulfire both so it confuses me very much.

After the raid is over, I tried to seek some enlightments over my 'local' communites, it seems that most of other players had no definite clues on the subject like me. I wanted to check streamings, but no lucky with my timezone. Please, any even a small tip on the fury/MC stack management would be much appreciated. Oh and again please forgive my English if there is any akward expression or grammar stuff. Thank you for reading.

[Zagam 1,983]

6.1 Demo plays like 5.4 Demo except you use Cataclysm or have a Doomguard in the background doing 40% of your DPS for you.

 

Go back and think about your roots.  Save Molten Core charges for Soul Fire in Metamorphosis, maximize your Metamorphosis uptime, and sync up your Grimoire Service:Doomguard with Dark Soul.  It's a really simple rotation, less complex and more forgiving that Demonbolt was with movement. 

 

The thing with Demonology is it is complex and it requires practice.  It's not as simple as reading, digesting, and applying.  Get out there, queue for LFR, go do some normal runs, and PRACTICE.  They keep messing with us, but it's up to you if you let it get you down or you keep fighting. 

 

It's not about how hard you get hit.  It's about how hard you get hit and keep fighting. 

[cicerovivikta 0]

6.1 Demo plays like 5.4 Demo except you use Cataclysm or have a Doomguard in the background doing 40% of your DPS for you.

 

Go back and think about your roots.  Save Molten Core charges for Soul Fire in Metamorphosis, maximize your Metamorphosis uptime, and sync up your Grimoire Service:Doomguard with Dark Soul.  It's a really simple rotation, less complex and more forgiving that Demonbolt was with movement. 

 

The thing with Demonology is it is complex and it requires practice.  It's not as simple as reading, digesting, and applying.  Get out there, queue for LFR, go do some normal runs, and PRACTICE.  They keep messing with us, but it's up to you if you let it get you down or you keep fighting. 

 

It's not about how hard you get hit.  It's about how hard you get hit and keep fighting. 

 

Thank you for the reply, Zagam. Of course, I will keep practicing. I know even if it were more simple, I couldn't make it without trials and fails for myself. Eventually I will get my position back. 

 

I am actually kinda nervous on a scheduled normal run- I hope I could do better than the last one.

Edited February 28, 2015 by cicerovivikta

[Alkeir 1]

It's not about how hard you get hit.  It's about how hard you get hit and keep fighting. 

*salutes*

[Mikedawg 4]

If you start with 200 fury, when do you dark soul and grimserv?

[Liquidsteel 279]

I do Grimoire: Doomguard at pull but don't cast Dark Soul til like 3 seconds later.

[vladMTL 1]

I do Grimoire: Doomguard at pull but don't cast Dark Soul til like 3 seconds later.

 

hey

 

could you post please the full opener rotation according to this ?

 

thank you !

[Liquidsteel 279]

Prepot and precast Soul Fire, then:

 

Grimoire: Doomguard

HoG

Corruption

Shadowbolt

HoG

Meta + Doom

Soul Fire > ToC

 

You can drop out of Meta and refresh 2 stack HoG then jump back in for a few more SF / ToC

 

Alternatively on 2+ Targets I will Chaos Wave.

[Alkeir 1]

Prepot and precast Soul Fire, then:

 

Grimoire: Doomguard

HoG

Corruption

Shadowbolt

HoG

Meta + Doom

Soul Fire > ToC

 

You can drop out of Meta and refresh 2 stack HoG then jump back in for a few more SF / ToC

 

Alternatively on 2+ Targets I will Chaos Wave.

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

 

Also, unrelated question. I was talking to a friend about precasting Soulfire vs Shadowbolt, and he claims that Shadowbolt has the potential to do more damage on pull than Soul Fire, but Soul Fire is more consistent. By this logic, he likes to use Shadowbolt>Soul Fire as a precast. What are you guys' opinions on this?

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

My issue personally doing this is that I barely have enough time to get my 2-stack HoG just casting Corruption->SB in between, so if I were to include Grimoire:Doomguard I would miss out on my 2-stack.

Disclaimer:I have terrible gear and would maybe be able to pull off what you suggest with way more haste, haste trinket, or Hero/lust up, but otherwise it wouldn't work for me.

[Alkeir 1]

My issue personally doing this is that I barely have enough time to get my 2-stack HoG just casting Corruption->SB in between, so if I were to include Grimoire:Doomguard I would miss out on my 2-stack.

Disclaimer:I have terrible gear and would maybe be able to pull off what you suggest with way more haste, haste trinket, or Hero/lust up, but otherwise it wouldn't work for me.

I can understand that, but I have plenty enough haste to make my opener previously stated fairly easy to execute.

[Janglybits 1]

What's the reasoning behind Grimoire: Doomguard at the start instead of right after or before corruption or Shadowbolt in the middle of the HoG weave? (I.E., what I do, precast SF->HoG->Corruption->Grim:Dg->SB->Hog->Meta+DS+Doom->SF/ToC spam->rotation)

 

Also, unrelated question. I was talking to a friend about precasting Soulfire vs Shadowbolt, and he claims that Shadowbolt has the potential to do more damage on pull than Soul Fire, but Soul Fire is more consistent. By this logic, he likes to use Shadowbolt>Soul Fire as a precast. What are you guys' opinions on this?

It's less about the damage, and more that SF will generate more Demonic Fury.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I do the Doomguard first because he lasts 25s (so longer than the duration of Dark Soul), but also because I want as many of his casts to be buffed by 10s procs; he does pack quite the punch.

 

Honestly though either way is fine and not a problem.

[Just1Number 0]

I have a question about cataclysm: I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata, but doom has a duration of 1 minute and cata has a CD of 1 minute and a cast time. So it is impossible to get 100% uptime with this method. When should I cast additional Dooms to get closer to 100% uptime, while wasting as little df as possible?

[Glorn 1]

After 6.1 I should never use DB as demo? So on strong AoE fights I go Cata and others servitude? I've been reading a couple of pages of this thread, reading the whole 35 will be painful so please clarify that for me. Is demo still performing best on most fights, even after DB nerf?

[Paracel 165]

I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

After 6.1 I should never use DB as demo? So on strong AoE fights I go Cata and others servitude? I've been reading a couple of pages of this thread, reading the whole 35 will be painful so please clarify that for me. Is demo still performing best on most fights, even after DB nerf?

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Paracel

[Glorn 1]

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

 

 

 

I guess cata is still the way to go on heavy aoe fights(operator),right? Other than that, what's the general rule when to use supremacy,service and synergy?

[Drkdragon 9]

Not really. 

Targets outside of Cata range or appearing withind Cata cooldown still exist.

 

Think over it during actual gameplay, and you'll find the answer. Just be inside of Pandemic range.

 

It's not "best spec" but "best you can play" for singletarget atm. (Not talking Mythic/ridiculously big gear).

DB is still fine if you feel good with it and uncomfortable with DemServ. RNG factor is still out there and can fetch you some sick DPS if you get lucky. If you don't, it will still be ok.

For simple example, our guild Gruul Heroic log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H3WMRhkTVLpb6xzG#fight=11&translate=true

Me and other warlock are the same ilvl and pretty much the same skill. He is DemServ and I'm DB.

Nothing stellar from us, really, but we are within 300 dps from each other.

Kind of damage still matters, for example, on Blast Furnace. You'd prefer DB burst instead of DemServ sustained dps or Cata AoE that is not really needed because of focusing targets.(That's the role I'm fullfiling in our raid, however).

When movement matters, however, DemServ pulls ahead for obvious reasons. And it's a lot of BRF fights.

 

I am getting really frustrated with myself. I have almost the same item level as you two but my dps is no where near yours. I am still running DB because I have not adjusted to the style of DServ yet.

 

Last Gruul kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dFPzgAQrphwLy4jZ#type=damage-done&fight=6

 

It's only normal. Not performing well enough for Heroic yet. Is there something I am flat out missing?

[Soulzar 42]

I have a question about cataclysm: I know you're supposed to apply doom exclusively with cata, but doom has a duration of 1 minute and cata has a CD of 1 minute and a cast time. So it is impossible to get 100% uptime with this method. When should I cast additional Dooms to get closer to 100% uptime, while wasting as little df as possible?

 

I usually refresh both between first and second Cata.  The remaining Pandemic time on Dooms duration should roll over the rest of the fight so long as your casting Cata on CD.

[gahhda 95]

It's less about the damage, and more that SF will generate more Demonic Fury.

 

You gain 5 DF and a minor amount of damage for 2 seconds of 1000 intellect. Either way it won't majorly impact dps, I just think shadowbolt is way more reliable.