6.1 Destruction Guide

[Liquidsteel 279]

trinket proc (sandmans pouch) should be happening once between DS cooldowns so embers can be rebuilt for DS coming off, im not saying i dont do that also. 

 

the question was is it worth dumping on the mastery proc if i have a potential crit trinket proc incoming or if its not enough of an increase vs the other potential windows (when one needs to be reacted to)

I don't follow. Sandmans Pouch is on an 115s ICD. It therefore lines up with every 2 minute Dark Soul dump. Sometimes it can be a bitch and refuse to proc for a while, but no harm in delaying DS for a little while.

[Blackbeard7 0]

gotcha. i usually do line them up but sometimes it doesnt wanna cooperate like that

 

but in regards to the mastery proc it seems like "yes unless its nearly DS time" which clears up the main thing i was concerned about

[Djargo 4]

Yea i'm happy i got sandman's replaced the first week of raiding. It was SoO all over with PBI not proccing for ages

[t3chy 0]

hmm is it worth dumping chaos bolt with just the legendary ring's proc ?

[Jazii 0]

Hey, not home and on my phone at the moment so I'll try to mess around with Sims later but was hoping someone would have an opinion or answer to my question. I coined a mythic shards of nothing last night. I've been using Copeland and heroic runestone. Is the 2 on use worth playing around with even with the hold off on being able to use shards? I play primarily destro/demo. Though now I feel like messing around with affliction lol. Wtb 3 specs!

[gahhda 95]

hmm is it worth dumping chaos bolt with just the legendary ring's proc ?

 

No, it used to be in beta but isn't any longer. I'm in the process of updating the simc rotations, currently it still dumps for ring proc, but it shouldn't.

[Paracel 165]

No, it used to be in beta but isn't any longer. I'm in the process of updating the simc rotations, currently it still dumps for ring proc, but it shouldn't.

Simcraft is noob warlock.

...

That solves everything, actually  no offenso to you Gahhdo

 

[Nytemare 2]

So we got a hotfix for Devastation from 5% to 15% this is really a big change? My crit didn't go up which I expected it would due to 10% extra pt per stat, but maybe I am wrong.

[Paracel 165]

So we got a hotfix for Devastation from 5% to 15% this is really a big change? My crit didn't go up which I expected it would due to 10% extra pt per stat, but maybe I am wrong.

Your overall Crit rating stat is increased. Not "percent per point of stat". Thats how IMO this math works.

You had 100 crit that was 105 coz of devastation. Now it's 115. Amount of crit per 1 didn't change.

I'd expect tooltip errors, though. 

Blizz seems to like them on warlocks.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Paracel

[Nytemare 2]

Your overall Crit rating stat is increased. Not "percent per point of stat". Thats how IMO this math works.

You had 100 crit that was 105 coz of devastation. Now it's 115. Amount of crit per 1 didn't change.

I'd expect tooltip errors, though. 

Blizz seems to like them on warlocks.

 

so if each point is worth 1.15 (new change) then extra .10 crit  I assumed crit chance would go up by at least 1-2% if you take in consider how much crit we destro might be running. Before I was sitting at 16.23% chance to crit. I figure I wold get to at least 17-18%+ after change, but I guess not.

[Paracel 165]

so if each point is worth 1.15 (new change) then extra .10 crit  I assumed crit chance would go up by at least 1-2% if you take in consider how much crit we destro might be running. Before I was sitting at 16.23% chance to crit. I figure I wold get to at least 17-18%+ after change, but I guess not.

Crit worth did't change. Haste worth did.

Math break - your crit were 16.23% with 105% of crit rating. Assuming all crit being 115% of rating amount, not stat point worth now, I believe your crit should be 16.23/1.05(finding out your crit chance with 100% of rating, w/out passive) and then multiplied to 1.15 to find out the new chance.(That being 17.77).

Correct me if I'm wrong. I suck at math and rely to my personal experience.

Edit: spelling

Edited January 14, 2015 by Paracel

[Nytemare 2]

Crit worth did't change. Haste worth did.

Math break - your crit were 16.23% with 105% of crit rating. Assuming all crit being 115% of rating amount, not stat point worh now, I believe your crit should be 16.23/1.05(finding out your crit chance with 100% of rating, w/out passive) and then multiply to 1.15 to find out the new chance.(That being 17.77).

Correct me if I'm wrong. I suck at math and rely to my personal experience.

 

Lets see 110 crit raiting = 1% according to wowiki So according to my sheet I have 1,235 crit raiting. If we take 1235/110 = 11.227 (blizz rounds it to 11.23)

So if I doing this right I would take 1235 *1.15 (Devastation) = 1420.25. 1420.25 / 110 = 12.91% is what it comes out to be. 3.32% is still unaccountable if my crit chance really was 16.23 with the hotfix as they applied it before server went down for maintenance.  

 

You guess is as good as mine, maybe one of the people who better at the math can help us out here. I betting I overlooking something. I have a base 5% crit with out gear, but I read everyone has that now, so doubt that it.

 

[Desos 18]

 

You guess is as good as mine, maybe one of the people who better at the math can help us out here. I betting I overlooking something. I have a base 5% crit with out gear, but I read everyone has that now, so doubt that it.

 

After a bit confusion about your character sheet(for me, you actually have only 784 crit rating equipped, but it shows 1235 in the summary), I looked into my own char and found out that the value shown in the summary is already buffed, but by the old 1.05 coefficient. I cross-checked this with AMR. So if you have 1235 crit rating, this means, your gear should only have around 1176 crit rating. 

With the buffed devastation, you get ca. 1352 crit rating or something like 12.3 % plus 5% crit buff. So you end up having something like 17.3 % crit.

 

The minimal deviations from prior postings result from wrong order of operations, since in this case you should apply rating buffs before conversion to percentages or adding percentages and only calculate with the flat ratings.

[gahhda 95]

Heads up, max added shadowburn ember refunds to simc. Preliminary results say for a fight like bracken/margok where you can spam havoc/shadowburn mastery probably pulls ahead of crit decently. I'll have more info over the upcoming week as I improve my new apl.

[MetioN 0]

Heya Liquid, great job on the guide man..you made life easier for many. I am pretty positive of the answer but will you revamp and post new sinulations for 6.1? I just read the changes and whilst there are not any major improvements it would still be interesting to know if GoSup or GoSac with the 5% buff is the way to go..samething for the 10% buff for charred remains. Thanks again and keep up the good work!

[Liquidsteel 279]

I will update it once I see what works. Truth be told I'll probably be Demonology on most fights. I'm pretty much guaranteed the conqueror 4 set in our first heroic split run unless RNG fucks me, and the HoG bonus is just too good on multi target fights.

I will get around to it at some point, but progress will be pretty hectic so don't expect anything too in depth sorry!

[Daragnos 0]

I will update it once I see what works. Truth be told I'll probably be Demonology on most fights. I'm pretty much guaranteed the conqueror 4 set in our first heroic split run unless RNG fucks me, and the HoG bonus is just too good on multi target fights.

I will get around to it at some point, but progress will be pretty hectic so don't expect anything too in depth sorry!

 

I know certain specs outperform others based on a lot of variables, such as which boss you're fighting and how much movement is needed.  However, are you choosing Demo because it's currently SimCrafting higher than others?  I haven't actually found a post on the forums that says, "this spec is theoretically the highest DPS spec right now."  Thoughts?

[spikeysquad 50]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7/#difficulty=4&sample=7&dataset=90&aggregate=amount I cannot speak for anyone else but I suggest that link is why the majority of people are maining Demo (if not solely playing that) as the gap is just too big. "Real world" numbers mean a lot more than sims.

Edited February 10, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Liquidsteel 279]

If Destruction still generating embers from Rain of Fire I might have considered it on a few fights, but nah, Demonology just too strong.

 

Not only does it provide amazing ST damage, it also gains a lot from pure passive cleave via HoG and multi DoTing corruption / Doom.

 

Stuff like Darmac where you can swim in unlimited Fury and pump Demonbolt's into the boss is loads of fun. You won't top overall damage (hello Starfall) but you sure as hell can top boss damage, which is what matters. Same on Blast Furnace (Primal Elementalist damage) and Operator Throgar (Boss and Man at Arms or whatever). 

 

You also have the option to run Cataclysm on Hanz and Franz and Iron Maidens to gain more movement flexibility (and damage is competitive with DB parses) and potentially on Kromog unless you end up killing them too fast. I think on Mythic they'll need bursting a lot harder but will have to see if we get to him this week. He was pretty tough on heroic so I feel we might not get to try him til next week, but we'll see.

 

I think the first 3 bosses we'll do tomorrow/thurs will be Beastlord / Gruul / Hanz n Franz, and I'll be running Demonbolt on the first two and Cataclysm on the third.

[Aardaev 0]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zNPcxYDQwBk6XAvC

I'm looking for advice.

[spikeysquad 50]

Hey Aardev. I am not a good log reader so I didn't really look into yours but didn't want to just ignore you as I was posting in this thread. Anyhow, work on Immolate uptime, configure an addon so it is obvious when it is in pandemic range so you can refresh it in time. Other tips for single target that you may or may not be doing are only Chaos Bolt (CB) with good procs, do not cap embers, bank a Conflag charge for movement, try to avoid using Backdraft stacks with CB and lastly actually consider changing spec at least for fights like Gruul. Hopefully someone else can help you more appropriately.

 

Liquidsteel, I know that you are probably very busy with progression at the moment (grats on 5/10!) but I was wondering can anyone give me some tips on how to Charred Remains please? Getting some practice in in case that is (more) viable come 6.1 and I never really got to grips with it before. I really do hope though Destro does not become my main spec again... Many thanks. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Paracel 165]

I think Charred Remains buff is a very good move for Destro Warlocks now.
 

Just think over the issues we had and the key strengths:

Problems:

• 1)Low mobility
• 2)Lack of our resource - embers
•  2.1)Limited embers usage is leading to:
•     2.1.1)Burn phases were very tight and tied to DS cooldown of 120 seconds and to limited generation both - not so fun when you need to burst something right now(Hello Blast Furnace) and you either don't have DS or have no embers.
•     2.1.2)It's less Shadowburns than you could want in some cases - you got to think ahead whether you can get those embers back by the time of next burn phase
•     2.1.3)Sustained AoE is a bit weak - once again, you got to think about spending embers on FnB(and it eats a lot of them). RoF is also very weak.

Strengths:

• Decent singletarget burst in the burn phase.
• Ability to capitalize on the fight mechanics via Shadowburn and Havoc
• Some AoE is still out there. Yeah, it's not much, but it's still out there.

Having nothing to do with the mobility of Destro, Charred remains talent, however, gives Destro spec a way to deal with the second big issue - limited embers. I'm not talking it like "wow we have infinite embers now", but anyone who have touched this talent can agree - amount of them is pretty darn excessive.

With the Charred Remains:

• You can easily use DS glyph, as you'll always have embers to dump.
  
  I was talking about the flexibility of this glyph eariler on this forum, pointing to the fact you was given more freedom during the 20 second window and the Sandman's Pouch proc synergy was out there for Highmaul
  

  However, outside of the burn phase, embers usage was limited, as I've pointed earlier in this exact post.

  ​

  Glyphed AD can be a very good tool for burst on demand(Like Blast Furnace scenario I've been talking about).

   

  BRF gave us some 0.92 RPPM trinkets to toy with, and it's much easier to syncronize with them using glyphed AD(from my PoV. I don't have neither those trinkets nor the Destro BRF experience, it's just a common sense conclusion)

• You can sustain FnB. You can even use FnB'ed Chaos Bolts for maximum awesomeness!
• You can pack as much Shadowburns as you want without actually thinking ahead whether your embers will be available for your next burn phase.
• Your singletarget damage is pretty much the same(according to SimCraft). Inci damage is weaker, but there is much more spare CBs and GoSac is there to cover up some damage lost from talent choice.

I can also think about Destro being less relying on your Crit amount and more on your Mastery. Crit was very important for embers generation and Mastery was close second stat. 

CR generation is significantly bigger and requires less Crit for viability.

That's an assumption I'm making from my common sense, once again. I'm not making any big calculations or stat re-weighting.

Those are mine thoughts on the Charred Remains topic. Issues are fixed in a some way and key strengths are not really affected.

Feel free to reason with me, telling me where I'm wrong and stuff.
Sorry for my bad English in case it is.

P.S. I'm going to give CR Destro a try next week. My gear is loaded with haste, multistrike and mastery, and I'm mostly Aff player, though.

I'll also talk to my guild warlocks and see what they think and what their experience would be, as they are mostly Destro players.
On the first thought, for the exact fights, Darmac, Kromog, Thogar and Blast Furnace are looking pretty nice for CR. Probably Iron Maidens too. Also pretty good in Highmaul.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Paracel

[Cirous 2]

My concern with Charred Remains is this:

Problems:

• 1)Low mobility

You listed it as the destruction's number one problem even before taking CR. And with CR+GoSac emphasizing Chaos Bolts it makes our mobility even worse. No number tweaking is going to resolve that.

[Paracel 165]

My concern with Charred Remains is this:

You listed it as the destruction's number one problem even before taking CR. And with CR+GoSac emphasizing Chaos Bolts it makes our mobility even worse. No number tweaking is going to resolve that.

I've pointed that in my post. 

However I want to look for the upsides and not to keep crying about the problems I can't solve. That's why I didn't give much attention for mobility.

EDIT: Things I've thinking about now is essentially those:

1)How to work with small procs like Weapon Enchant or Legendary ring(not talking BRF trinkets)

2)At which point/fights/etc Cataclysm outscale CR in AoE scenario

I'd like to see more opinions shared.

• Absolute unviability due to mobility?
• "Meh, it's fine" = midpack DPS even with good performance?
• Totally inferior to whatever-new-Demo-is or Affliction?
• Our new go-to choice?

Edited February 23, 2015 by Paracel

[Mikedawg 4]

I'm pumped for CR. I was already using it for Thogar, Beastlord, and Kromog. I was getting 99.9th percentile without playing well and with 1k haste and haste trinkets, so it doesn't seem like other people have hopped on that train yet, but obviously it'll all change with 6.1. 

 

Destro with CR has very little weaknesses. It has strong sustained AOE (something Demo lacks), burst AOE (Demo has a huge cooldown), single target burst (Demo needs DB and it has a cooldown), and priority add damage (are you going to demonbolt "Pinned Down"?). I kind of re-stated a few points there, but the message should hold. 

 

I feel really free to do what I want, and do great damage while I'm at it, and I can get hit by trains all day with 440k HP. 

 

Of course the mobility thing is a factor, but I don't really find it to be as much of a problem in BRF as it was in Highmaul, although I have yet to hit Mythic, and I haven't gone Destro for every boss in BRF yet. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by Mikedawg