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Niix

In Depth Pre-Expansion Hunter Guide. (All Specs)

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Broaden your definition of hunter.  Its a marksman, which is still a type of hunter throughout lore.  The idea of a marksman is that they stay still in order to ensure maximum damage to their target.  The change to the mastery (sniper training), exemplifies this change to MM playstyle.  You also have the 3s to move without loosing uptime of sniper training (and thus no lost dps), and all abilities are castable while moving vs a mage where their dps will drop unless they use a movement cd.  Hunters also bring a raid-wide movement cooldown.  Getting rid of your pets is a level 100 decision, so you won't have to worry about that for another month.  And in all honesty, it just furthers the idea of being a marksman (or a lone wolf, as they're occasionally called).

 

At least as far as WoW is concerned, Hunters since Vanila have been known for their ability to move while DPSing to one extent or another.  All three specs had this as one of their chief advantages during MoP, and it makes many fights, like Thok, a hunter's niche. I understand that others may not agree with this definition, but to me the defining characteristic of being a Hunter has always been movement.  MM's mastery flies in the face of that.  It's the same as the new lvl 100 Shadow priest talent to me, Spriests have always been about the DoTs, a DoT-less Spriest feels...wrong.

I agree that there is defintiely a place for a "turret-based" Hunter spec, but it's a little disconcerting that the "turret Hunter" is the most viable DPS spec right now and that Survival and BM seem to be lagging so far behind.  I do not agree with the fact that Survival is the only DPS class in the game without a baseline DPS CD right now.

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Hi again Niix,

 

You recommend pretty much Thrill / Stampede / Barrage throughout the board.

 

But the MM opener you recomment contains 2 Steady Shots in a row at a point. Is this to build focus or were you looking at Steady Focus at the time?

 

Purely focus generation.

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At least as far as WoW is concerned, Hunters since Vanila have been known for their ability to move while DPSing to one extent or another.  All three specs had this as one of their chief advantages during MoP, and it makes many fights, like Thok, a hunter's niche. I understand that others may not agree with this definition, but to me the defining characteristic of being a Hunter has always been movement.  MM's mastery flies in the face of that.  It's the same as the new lvl 100 Shadow priest talent to me, Spriests have always been about the DoTs, a DoT-less Spriest feels...wrong.

I agree that there is defintiely a place for a "turret-based" Hunter spec, but it's a little disconcerting that the "turret Hunter" is the most viable DPS spec right now and that Survival and BM seem to be lagging so far behind.  I do not agree with the fact that Survival is the only DPS class in the game without a baseline DPS CD right now.

 

To be fair, MM is pretty easy to move with still. I didn't have less than a 97% uptime on Sniper Training even on Galakras where I had to do towers.

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To be fair, MM is pretty easy to move with still. I didn't have less than a 97% uptime on Sniper Training even on Galakras where I had to do towers.

 

I agree, ran Immerseus through Thok last night and it's relatively easy, just not my preference.  Seems to reduce what was once one of the advantages of being a hunter, our mobility.  Still more mobile than most casters, to be fair.

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Small change to ideal talents for MM puts Steady Focus ahead of Thrill currently if you have a decent uptime on it. 75%+ as well as a change to a small error in the MM BiS list putting Immerseus neck above Thok. Thok is currently better.

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Small change to ideal talents for MM puts Steady Focus ahead of Thrill currently if you have a decent uptime on it. 75%+ as well as a change to a small error in the MM BiS list putting Immerseus neck above Thok. Thok is currently better.

Had a question about the gear lists. Namely, if all three specs share Gemming and stat priorities, shouldn't BiS gear be the same across all three specs? Not trying to be annoying or nit-pick, just curious. Thanks!

V/R

Vala

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Had a question about the gear lists. Namely, if all three specs share Gemming and stat priorities, shouldn't BiS gear be the same across all three specs? Not trying to be annoying or nit-pick, just curious. Thanks!

V/R

Vala

 

I most of the BiS list is the same, but the weights change around a few pieces simply because the stats are closer for some than others, pushing pieces with more overall stats above the others.

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Hi,

I have few questions regarding BiS list for MM. If our stat priority is "Weapon Damage > Agility > Crit > Haste > Mastery":

 

Why Minelayer's Padded Boots (crit/mastery) are better than Puddle Punishers (crit/haste)?

Ring of Restless Energy (crit/mastery) better than Reality Ripper Ring (crit/haste)?

and Kor'Kron Hand Cannon (crit/mastery) better than Hisek's Reserve Longbow (crit/haste)? 

 

It seems you prioritize mastery over haste? Maybe stat priority needs to be corrected.

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Hi,

I have few questions regarding BiS list for MM. If our stat priority is "Weapon Damage > Agility > Crit > Haste > Mastery":

 

Why Minelayer's Padded Boots (crit/mastery) are better than Puddle Punishers (crit/haste)?

Ring of Restless Energy (crit/mastery) better than Reality Ripper Ring (crit/haste)?

and Kor'Kron Hand Cannon (crit/mastery) better than Hisek's Reserve Longbow (crit/haste)? 

 

It seems you prioritize mastery over haste? Maybe stat priority needs to be corrected.

 

Fixed BiS lists. Thanks for the heads up.

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For MM:  Ticking Ebon Detonator for BiS over Assurance?? seems to me it would be, considering all that assurance lowers now is Rapid Fire.  havent done any sims but i figured i could get a reply here.

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For MM:  Ticking Ebon Detonator for BiS over Assurance?? seems to me it would be, considering all that assurance lowers now is Rapid Fire.  havent done any sims but i figured i could get a reply here.

 

It lowers Rapid Fire as well as stampede which you are using on basically every fight except for Siegecrafter Belts and AoE fights like Galakras and Spoils. 

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So, tried out the Sniper Training WA last night....

Amazingly useful for high movement fights! I went from 85% uptime to over 95% and it made it so much more obvious how far I could run without stopping, so after a while I just started getting a second sense for looking at a spot on the ground and knowing I could make it there before ST would fall off.

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So, tried out the Sniper Training WA last night....

Amazingly useful for high movement fights! I went from 85% uptime to over 95% and it made it so much more obvious how far I could run without stopping, so after a while I just started getting a second sense for looking at a spot on the ground and knowing I could make it there before ST would fall off.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you liked it.

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All the sims put mastery at best secondary, provided a 100% uptime.  if you're geting 97% uptime on galakras with towers, i'd say the stat priority you listed are backwards then?  

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All the sims put mastery at best secondary, provided a 100% uptime.  if you're geting 97% uptime on galakras with towers, i'd say the stat priority you listed are backwards then?  

 

Realistically Mastery and Haste are so close that even if you have a 100% uptime on Sniper Training you'll gain like 50 DPS. So for most people, 100% uptime isn't going to happen, and having Haste over Mastery is a lot better considering you'll always get the benefit.

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Realistically Mastery and Haste are so close that even if you have a 100% uptime on Sniper Training you'll gain like 50 DPS. So for most people, 100% uptime isn't going to happen, and having Haste over Mastery is a lot better considering you'll always get the benefit.

 

As I'm sure you're aware by now, large buffs for basically every Hunter move and DPS talent on MMO Champ.  80% bump to AMoC, is that our new go-to for ST?

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As I'm sure you're aware by now, large buffs for basically every Hunter move and DPS talent on MMO Champ.  80% bump to AMoC, is that our new go-to for ST?

 

Will be running sims over the next few days and will post a separate thread covering how the changes affect our current play. As the buffs aren't live yet and are scheduled to go live on Tuesday. Expect them then.

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Small error in simcraft not properly taking into account the BM 4p. Changes have been reverted.

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Additional changes to talent choices for BM. Will be adding an AoE section in the coming days.

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So even after the buff, Stampede is still better than AMoC for ST?

 

I had thought AMoC wasn't too far behind Stampede pre-buff, so an 80% boost seemed like it would put AMoC on top.  Did Stampede get a buff as well?

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Switched to BM for today's raid and was trailing behind my fellow hunter colleague who was MM specced. I would have put this down to not having had enough experience with the build except i was FAR behind by fellow hunter colleague.

 

Did anyone experience this? What ilvl and spec are you guys and what DPS are you getting at various bosses?

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Switched to BM for today's raid and was trailing behind my fellow hunter colleague who was MM specced. I would have put this down to not having had enough experience with the build except i was FAR behind by fellow hunter colleague.

 

Did anyone experience this? What ilvl and spec are you guys and what DPS are you getting at various bosses?

 

The buffs that are bringing BM up to MM DPS levels (and then above) are not live until tomorrow.  Until then, I have found MM is out-dpsing both BM and SV by a fairly large margin, 15% or so for BM, 20-25% for SV.  This is based on my personal experience on dummies.

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That makes sense. Thank you. I'm curious though, which dummies are you using? Because the raiding dummies can't be relied on since they reflect WoD Bosses defensive stats now and we get loads of Dodges and Misses off of them.

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