Mistweaver Monk 6.2

[Guest Bezen]

What about glyph of Mana Tea? It's not mentored on the list...

okease add mana tea major glyph

[Vlad 411]

okease add mana tea major glyph

Thank you. I'm updating this right now :)

[joemadly 0]

Can someone tell Unpl Winged hourglass doesnt proc with heals?

-

Versatility get-back is a joke if you're PvE'ing and has lower significance than Haste and Mastery.

 

Stacking multistrike can negatively hinder your healing output compared to Critical, Mastery, Haste combination.

 

in other words; it should be note that stacking multistrike should not be at the cost of unreasonably low haste, spirit, critical stats which are just as important as multistrike in combination.

 

it is just as important to state stat priorities' contrast

-

feel free to use my written material

 

Mistweave Monk:  Joemadly from Mal'ganis

[Guest Vyncent]

Intellect is, as we said, your primary stat. You want that in all your upgrades. As in, you never ever want to get an item without Intellect. This information is, if anything, redundant, because as a Mistweaver you're never going to pick up an item that doesn't have Intellect, probably even if we never mentioned it. Once you're looking at an item with Intellect on it, then you decide based on the stat priority.

 

Spirit isn't on the list because it doesn't logically fit on it. It cannot be given a "weight" as other stats can be. It depends on your comfort level with your mana regeneration, but the safe bet (at least for a good while longer) is to get all the Spirit items you can.

 

 

Problem is that the way the stat priorities are listed, and the explanation following, appear to be conflicting. While you are right that Int should be on every piece, the stat priorities suggest that it is not as important as the explanation says. In the explanation you cite Spirit as being of fair value, but with the Stats Priority list is appears that it has no value at all. This is confusing. As it is, I am fighting just to find gear that has spirit on it and I do agree it is of value. Basically, many will read the list of Stats, but most do not take the time to read the whole page, and it causes confusing for some who are looking for the information you are presenting.

[Guest Unique GrimBatolEU]

Fistweaving priority is incorrect.

For spending chi it's always

Touch of Death >Blackout kick (to maintane buff) > Tiger power (to maintane buff) > RSK > Additional blackout kicks

You've left out cranes zeal and tiger power entirely. If you want to build up mana tea stacks the +20% crit buff there is essential.

As for generating chi you're correct with Vital mists > expel harm > jab for best mama regen. But you should add in to spam jab only if your purpose is to do damage only and not be mana efficient. (For something like a tight enrage)

[Guest Unique Grim Batol]

The fistweaving section of this guide needs to be updated to mention the buffs (cranes zeal /tiger power) & the section should also imply some kind of priority.

Cranes Zeal especially is hugely important if you're using fistweaving on pull to build up stacks. Tiger Power has no utility to mana regen but should obviously be applied for the extra damage, and healing by extension.

 

Basically for Chi Generation it's:

 

• Vital Mist Procs > Expel Harm > Jab (Best mana)

    OR   

• Jab Spam (Best damage - potentially better where you're fistweaving to beat an enrage & not for mana)

 

& For spending Chi (specced pool of mists) it's:

 

Blackout Kick (To apply or maintain cranes Zeal) > Tiger Palm (To apply or Maintain Tiger Power) > Rising Sun Kick > Extra Blackout Kicks

 

There's an entirely different build with crane stance and Chi Explosion in which you never leave crane stance that is currently being used by some monks, particularly on butcher mythic https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6KCNGpvhRAJWQLkX#fight=3&type=healing (Check damage also, these aren't my logs I just pulled it off the top DPS ranks for MW on butcher)

 

I've only been experimenting with it for the last 2 days so not as confident about anything below so second opinions welcomed on it.

 

Chi Generation

 

Vital Mists > Jab (Since you rarely exit crane stance you will never go oom, expel harm made redundant or situational)

 

Spending Chi

 

ChiEX (To apply or maintain cranes Zeal, I've been using it on 1 chi on pull just to apply the buff immediately) > Tiger Palm (To apply or Maintain Tiger Power) 

 

Whether you apply ChiEx (3-4 Chi) or RSK next is fairly situational. You'll only be using ChiEx at 3-4 chi and if the group is topped it will do massive overhealing so RSK would be better. 

 

When the group takes heavy damage you should aim to only use it at 4 Chi and follow up with a detonate chi. Alternatively if you predict heavy incoming group damage soon you can use ChiEx (@ 4 Chi) > Build up Chi > ChiEx (@4 Chi) > Detonate Chi.

Thus detonating 16 spheres instead of 8. Less mana and globals into detonate chi.

 

Anyway. That's everything I've learned spamming normal and heroic mode withthat play style in the last 2 days. Personally I've been getting about 15k dps / 25-35k hps @ 674 gear doing this. Which I think is around about the numbers fistweaving should be doing to be considered balanced. So maybe if some people picked mistweaver to be a melee healer they might find the information I've gathered mucking about useful. But as you can see from the butcher mythic log I linked it can indeed be quite insane. Main thing seems to be avoid overhealing with ChiExplo.

 

For your consideration I've made a TL;DR version:

 

Please update the fistweaving section ty

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Ferari]

Have few nice macros to add to the guide:

Detox on mouse over or normal

/cast [@mouseover,help]Detox;Detox

Thunder Focus Tea + Mist, so you do not forget to use every time it is possible

/cast Thunder Focus Tea
/cast [@mouseover,help]Renewing Mist; Renewing Mist

Same goes for Surging Mist + Thunder Focus Tea

/cast Thunder Focus Tea
/cast [@mouseover,help]Surging Mist;Surging Mist

[mnime 17]

So I see some very good logs on Warcraftlogs, specifically 1 record in the top 3 of Oregorger Mythic MW Monks with Chi Explosion, their top healing spell is Chi Explosion, since 6.1 they buffed CE a lot, and I see ppl use it more often, since 1 very good record beat Uplift, can we actually see CE as a competitive healing spell?

In the guide it still says undertuned compared to Uplift and Enveloping Mist.

Edited February 28, 2015 by mnime

[Guest Guest]

Your stats priority at this point is still totally confusing. Unpl is supposedly the person who approved the guide. You list the stats priority as follows:

 

1. Multistrike

2. Critical Strike

3. Intellect

4. Versatility

5. Haste

6. Mastery

 

Despite the confusion of the priority list and the following explanation, addition confusion is found when checking out Unpl's and other top leading Mistweavers profile on Battle.net where their priorities are not even close to the one listed above.

 

Unpl's for example shows:

 

1. Haste of 61.99%

2. Multistrike of 29.09%

3. Mastery of 13.02%

4. Critical Strike of 13.45%

 

I do not list the other stats, as they either do not reflect a percentage, or the character does not have any at all.

 

So what exactly is the priority on the stats? Has it changed? So many changes have been made since this Expac began, so is it possible that this is the reason that the stats shown, and those actually being used reflect so differently? Plz reply!

 

 

[Guest Vyncent]

Your stats priority at this point is still totally confusing. Unpl is supposedly the person who approved the guide. You list the stats priority as follows:

 

1. Multistrike

2. Critical Strike

3. Intellect

4. Versatility

5. Haste

6. Mastery

 

Despite the confusion of the priority list and the following explanation, addition confusion is found when checking out Unpl's and other top leading Mistweavers profile on Battle.net where their priorities are not even close to the one listed above.

 

Unpl's for example shows:

 

1. Haste of 61.99%

2. Multistrike of 29.09%

3. Mastery of 13.02%

4. Critical Strike of 13.45%

 

I do not list the other stats, as they either do not reflect a percentage, or the character does not have any at all.

 

So what exactly is the priority on the stats? Has it changed? So many changes have been made since this Expac began, so is it possible that this is the reason that the stats shown, and those actually being used reflect so differently? Plz reply!

 

 

[Spinandwin 1]

You shouldn't look at % of stats on armoury. For example mastery is base 10% so Unpl in reality has very little of it. The BiS set has a little mastery on it, but it's still awful.

Haste on the armoury is also innacurate

The state priority is quite simply

Spirit static (with RJW)

Int

Spirit Procs

Multistrike

Crit

Versatility

Haste

Mastery

Spirit = more RJW's and as of 6.1 we get a double dip from STATIC spirit which increases the value of mana tea. Rjw is such a powerful heal that it directly makes spirit highly desirable.

Int = spell power yay

Multistrike = Direct throughput value from the extra hit. However in serpent stance it has a chance to reset your ReM. Which not only gives more healing but smooths out your chi generation AND results in Uplift overhealing less. Uplift has a diminishing returns beyond 6. That is, it does the same healing on 6 as it does on 20. But the huge benefit with a rem blanket is next to no overhealing. I won't get into how the game calculates the DR but it's smart

In crane it resets RSK = more deeps

Crit = again direct throughout value. But we have a special class mechanic here as well where our tea brew has a chance equal to our crit to give 2 mana tea instead of 1. The value of crit is kind of reliant on spirit as a result but it will be under multi for the foreseeable future anyway.

Versatility = it's damage reduction is counted as healing + flat throughout value. Boring stat. The only reason it's 3rd is haste and mastery are bad.

Haste = at face value it's not that bad. Main problem with it is mana. Already been over how mana is a throughput increase because of more RJW's.

The problem with haste is while it adds intensity and more casts per minute it consumes more mana since you press more buttons more or less. By comparison multistrike and crit add equal face value power with NO mana cost AND smooth out chi generation / mana tea generation as explained above.

This makes haste unattractive at least in our primary healing stance. In crane its above crit however.

Mastery = just bad. You need a team of engineers to figure out how it actually works and could write a wall of text explaining it but.

Not only is it mechanically flawed (orbs). But the tooltip lies. When you heal you don't have a 13% chance to spawn one. It's literally a complete lie. The only spell that spawns a decent amount is renewing mist. EVERY other spell has a modifier that reduces the amount of spheres spawned

If you want a thorough breakdown on stats check out Geodews post on MMO champion.

Also @ whoever wrote this guide. I can't imagine Unpl condoning the use of ascension since it's quite literally a fraction the power of the other talents.

Power strikes for flat throughput.

Chi brew for more mana with less (but more controlled) throughput

[Spinandwin 1]

So I see some very good logs on Warcraftlogs, specifically 1 record in the top 3 of Oregorger Mythic MW Monks with Chi Explosion, their top healing spell is Chi Explosion, since 6.1 they buffed CE a lot, and I see ppl use it more often, since 1 very good record beat Uplift, can we actually see CE as a competitive healing spell?

In the guide it still says undertuned compared to Uplift and Enveloping Mist.

In a void, its good. Especially with the 2 set. You can snapshot the multistrike buff from your 2 set into the chi explosions or detonates.

The problem with it is the damage needs to come in a pattern that lines up with chiex used @ 4 chi. It needs perfect conditions to match PoM. Pool of Mists is just all round more versatile, burstier and hands down better.

The numbers are there for ChiEx. But it needs to REWARD stacking with more healing. Not be "oh, if you stack it MIGHT match up to the more versatile talent that works regardless of stacking"

It's just dumb that it's designed that way. It needs to be about 20% stronger than 2 uplifts when used at 4 chi. To compensate for the stacking requirement. Otherwise why take over the one in all choice?

[ninjanyr 0]

-snip-

Edited September 8, 2015 by ninjanyr

[Orthios 271]

Could somebody please fix this guide? There are so many things currently wrong and outdated with it. I strongly believe that somebody else should review it, because Unpl isn't even a main raider toon anymore and it's obvious he doesn't know how to play MW monk very well if he's approved this guide.

And what would you change if you were asked to do so, hmm?  Comments like this aren't very useful when all you say is that something is wrong but offer no solution or way to improve.

[Spinandwin 1]

And what would you change if you were asked to do so, hmm?  Comments like this aren't very useful when all you say is that something is wrong but offer no solution or way to improve.

 

 

I can wall of text it, when I have time later. But there are some things wrong with it at a basic level. Like the false trap that is glyph of mana tea + Tier 2/3 talent recommendations.  

 

It's better than it was in 5.4 to be fair when it was utterly atrocious. Part of why I know Unpl has never read it since he "approved" it back then too.

 

 

You should ask someone like Monkioh to proof read it

[Orthios 271]

The problem is, the guides are updated whenever the reviewers push updates to vlad and damien.  So if the reviewer doesn't send any updates, then the guides don't get updated.  So most likely the guide is outdated, and a new reviewer may need to be found.

[Spinandwin 1]

The problem is, the guides are updated whenever the reviewers push updates to vlad and damien.  So if the reviewer doesn't send any updates, then the guides don't get updated.  So most likely the guide is outdated, and a new reviewer may need to be found.

 

 

Well I hate to say it but it was outdated for a year and a half in Siege of Orgrimmar which led to a lot of terrible spirit stacking, chi wave & xuen using monks that couldn't heal. It's better now in the sense that it's not completely off the mark but considering IV is probably the most widely used resource for class guides; this one has being doing a massive disservice to monks for 2 years now & I'd recommend you find a new reviewer.

 

Not in the sense that Unpl is a bad player (obviously). But that he's taking whatever perks he's getting for this and not updating, caring about or apparently even reading it.

[Guest Vyncent]

You shouldn't look at % of stats on armoury. For example mastery is base 10% so Unpl in reality has very little of it. The BiS set has a little mastery on it, but it's still awful.

Haste on the armoury is also innacurate

The state priority is quite simply

Spirit static (with RJW)

Int

Spirit Procs

Multistrike

Crit

Versatility

Haste

Mastery

Spirit = more RJW's and as of 6.1 we get a double dip from STATIC spirit which increases the value of mana tea. Rjw is such a powerful heal that it directly makes spirit highly desirable.

Int = spell power yay

Multistrike = Direct throughput value from the extra hit. However in serpent stance it has a chance to reset your ReM. Which not only gives more healing but smooths out your chi generation AND results in Uplift overhealing less. Uplift has a diminishing returns beyond 6. That is, it does the same healing on 6 as it does on 20. But the huge benefit with a rem blanket is next to no overhealing. I won't get into how the game calculates the DR but it's smart

In crane it resets RSK = more deeps

Crit = again direct throughout value. But we have a special class mechanic here as well where our tea brew has a chance equal to our crit to give 2 mana tea instead of 1. The value of crit is kind of reliant on spirit as a result but it will be under multi for the foreseeable future anyway.

Versatility = it's damage reduction is counted as healing + flat throughout value. Boring stat. The only reason it's 3rd is haste and mastery are bad.

Haste = at face value it's not that bad. Main problem with it is mana. Already been over how mana is a throughput increase because of more RJW's.

The problem with haste is while it adds intensity and more casts per minute it consumes more mana since you press more buttons more or less. By comparison multistrike and crit add equal face value power with NO mana cost AND smooth out chi generation / mana tea generation as explained above.

This makes haste unattractive at least in our primary healing stance. In crane its above crit however.

Mastery = just bad. You need a team of engineers to figure out how it actually works and could write a wall of text explaining it but.

Not only is it mechanically flawed (orbs). But the tooltip lies. When you heal you don't have a 13% chance to spawn one. It's literally a complete lie. The only spell that spawns a decent amount is renewing mist. EVERY other spell has a modifier that reduces the amount of spheres spawned

If you want a thorough breakdown on stats check out Geodews post on MMO champion.

Also @ whoever wrote this guide. I can't imagine Unpl condoning the use of ascension since it's quite literally a fraction the power of the other talents.

Power strikes for flat throughput.

Chi brew for more mana with less (but more controlled) throughput

 

 

Ty for your feedback, it is appreciated, although I am still confused. I understand that the armoury is bugged, however, to my understanding the usual rule of thumb is that if the stat is green it is the stat that is being, for want of a better phrase, stacked, or given priority' on the toon. Unpl is just one example, another in Monkioh from Midwinter. Both very similar. Little to no versatility at all, haste off the scales, Multistrike between 27% and 30%, and Mastery, and Crit are both between 15% and 18% (yes, I know this is inaccurate), which still refutes that current listing in the guide. Many changes have been made to a lot of things since this guide was written, not to mention how things work between stats in the game.  I do agree with the need for Multistrike and Crit, but still question the current priority set for the other stats, considering what the high end players appear to actually be prioritizing.

 

I do apologize in advance for being persistent with this matter, but I am just trying to understand how best to make what I do work. I, regrettably, do not fistweave, which is probably a major bad thing, but I would at least like to do Mistweaving to the best of my ability even w/o the fistweaving.

[Orthios 271]

Ty for your feedback, it is appreciated, although I am still confused. I understand that the armoury is bugged, however, to my understanding the usual rule of thumb is that if the stat is green it is the stat that is being, for want of a better phrase, stacked, or given priority' on the toon. Unpl is just one example, another in Monkioh from Midwinter. Both very similar. Little to no versatility at all, haste off the scales, Multistrike between 27% and 30%, and Mastery, and Crit are both between 15% and 18% (yes, I know this is inaccurate), which still refutes that current listing in the guide. Many changes have been made to a lot of things since this guide was written, not to mention how things work between stats in the game.  I do agree with the need for Multistrike and Crit, but still question the current priority set for the other stats, considering what the high end players appear to actually be prioritizing.

 

I do apologize in advance for being persistent with this matter, but I am just trying to understand how best to make what I do work. I, regrettably, do not fistweave, which is probably a major bad thing, but I would at least like to do Mistweaving to the best of my ability even w/o the fistweaving.

Haste being off the scales is due to Way of the Monk, so if they have a 2h weapon, you are seeing the 55% attack speed multiplier also being including in this.  Mastery is a "green" stat for what looks like all classes, so I've no clue as to why that is so, but the attunement stat is listed on the right column alongside the primary stats, which is the stat you get a bonus for, though not necessarily the stat you want to prioritize (for MW monks, it is good to stack multistrike).

[Guest Vyncent]

Haste being off the scales is due to Way of the Monk, so if they have a 2h weapon, you are seeing the 55% attack speed multiplier also being including in this.  Mastery is a "green" stat for what looks like all classes, so I've no clue as to why that is so, but the attunement stat is listed on the right column alongside the primary stats, which is the stat you get a bonus for, though not necessarily the stat you want to prioritize (for MW monks, it is good to stack multistrike).

 

Thank you very much for your patience and for helping to make what I am seeing make sense. I am aiming for Multistrike, but as with most things it is something that will take a bit of time. Thank you again for your help.

[Guest Valat]

why do they recommend not using the Chest piece in t18, when the shoulders have worst stats and should be the go to off set piece?

[Orthios 271]

why do they recommend not using the Chest piece in t18, when the shoulders have worst stats and should be the go to off set piece?

Mastery isn't a bad stat per say, and is actually pretty decent given people picking up the orbs.  The chest off piece has Crit/MS, whereas the shoulder off piece has crit/mastery.

[Guest derrrff]

Spinning Crane Kick should be updated to Rushing Jade Wind within the Stance of the Wise Serpent "Mastering" section. To avoid confusion.

[Orthios 271]

Spinning Crane Kick should be updated to Rushing Jade Wind within the Stance of the Wise Serpent "Mastering" section. To avoid confusion.

Where at?  As in, which section specifically?

[zhengmaii 0]

While you are dealing damage in this stance, this does meant you will necessarily be doing no healing whatsoever.

 

Is there any typo in this sentence?