New style AMR. (or the new Woodcutter class design thread)

[Nalar 0]

Hi guys

Just asking , please can you give me some tips on the new style AMR, plain and simple.

I'm on my phone at the moment and won't be back on my computer until the weekend .

Looking at it initially and its asking for me to replace my Amber gems for red haste gems, surely this can't be right?.

Regards

Nalar

[Eddie 16]

Short answer: Don't listen to AMR, ever.

Long answer: Your gems and gear are such a small part of your dps, and all the stats are so balanced right now that it doesn't matter even a little bit compared to fixing your gameplay.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Eddie pretty much has it.

 

AMR is, essentially, obsolete now that reforging and hit/haste caps are gone. The only thing AMR can do right now is recommend which gems to use, but it doesn't even do that right. When WoD launches and gem sockets become far and few between, there will be absolutely no reason for AMR to even exist.

 

And, I will cheer.

[Orthios 271]

Eddie pretty much has it.

 

AMR is, essentially, obsolete now that reforging and hit/haste caps are gone. The only thing AMR can do right now is recommend which gems to use, but it doesn't even do that right. When WoD launches and gem sockets become far and few between, there will be absolutely no reason for AMR to even exist.

 

And, I will cheer.

Not entirely true.  For the most part, yes.  The biggest current use (and what I expect to be in WoD), is the best in bags feature.  This might not be as useful to people such as yourself, and those who can figure out whether a piece is an upgrade (and in the case of tier items, which piece should be replaced and whether or not to do so).  However, for those who can't do this, AMR will be a very helpful tool.

[Eddie 16]

Except the best in bags feature is also broken. Zags had it telling him to replace his MWF Purified Bindings with a Heroic Black Blood, and his MWF Main/Offhand with his BoA.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Eddie

[Kazistrasz 216]

Not entirely true.  For the most part, yes.  The biggest current use (and what I expect to be in WoD), is the best in bags feature.  This might not be as useful to people such as yourself, and those who can figure out whether a piece is an upgrade (and in the case of tier items, which piece should be replaced and whether or not to do so).  However, for those who can't do this, AMR will be a very helpful tool.

 

Not only is best in bags broken, but it's going to be largely useless when we start in WoD, too. The best thing in your bags is going to be the piece with the highest item level while you're gearing up. IF you have two items for a slot of the same item level, then you can generally speaking just look at them and say, "oh, this one has my top two stats on it whereas this other one has one of my top two stats and one my fourth stat."

[Liquidsteel 279]

I really don't understand your crusade against AMR. It has proven to be an invaluable tool this expansion. It went from everyone hating on it 2 years ago to becoming a respected program.

 

Sure, people without a clue will go on there and use default profiles and often come out with incorrect gearing strategies, but then for each idiot there is one decent player who will see the program for what it is; a tool to not only tune your current gear set, but also play around with custom weights and gear sets and use those in conjunction with simcraft etc to find optimal strategies, assuming simcraft itself is also correct :)

 

It allowed for lightning fast reforges, and even did your gemming for you (as in actually placed the gems from your bags into the sockets). Time is Money!

 

They're also currently bringing out their own combat log which I have heard good things about, though I have not tested it myself due to being happy with WarcraftLogs, but I believe it will assist both newer and more experienced players alike by actually pointing out mistakes in the 'analysis' section, such as low debuff/buff uptimes or whatever.

 

If you have no need for it, that's great, but AMR has and likely will continue to be a fantastic tool for the majority of the WoW community.

[Krazyito 521]

^This. Thank you. Ever since they made their 'guaranteed optimization' over a year ago I've had 0 problems with the optimization pre-6.0 than I did when mop launched. (I never liked the BiB and BiS personally, but I never told people to use it)

The only problem I neglect is trinkets because that has to be manually ranked. You all know how trinkets can be, and you certainly can't expect an optimization to take it correctly at face value.

For every single person that asked me for any spec, I was able to make the weights do what they wanted. I literally can't believe anyone that says that they reach a haste breakpoint optimally by doing their gems themselves. A computer will do it better and it has for well over 2 years.

Now since WoD has arrived, everything has gone to shit. It's not their fault, shit just needs to get readjusted. When we get to level 100 I'm going to continue to reccommend it after fully using it correctly myself.

It doesn't matter now because of all the changes, but I seriously think this dislike of AMR is founded in old ignorance when it was harder to use and has always been something I have tried to quell by showing how it can be used. 

 

The same can be said though against it and I've done this myself. Be smart, understand you class and use it like the TOOL THAT IT IS. Question it. If you don't like something that it is doing, don't listen to it. Do your own thing, but never completely ignore it's opinion. CONSIDER IT, and change weights until you get what you want.  Use it to guide your decision making and reaffirm what you want to do. Change the stats, see what happens with the results. Outright not useing it with a blanket 'it's wrong' statement, to me at least, means you were using the tool incorrectly. 

 

Give me a set of gear and what you want right now pre-level 100 and I'll try to make it do what you want. I can't say I'll get it now with all the changes (still trying to learn to read and use it all) but I can get you pretty damn close still.

I'm going to link my shit again because people still don't understand how AMR does what you tell it.
 

TL;DR: Mr robot is not telling you what to do. YOU are telling Mr. Robot what to do and Mr. Robot is doing his thing with what YOU give him. Don't ask "is Mr. Robot right?" because you have to decide that for yourself and the adjust the weights accordingly.

STOP ASKING IF THEY ARE RIGHT. You're basically asking if you told Mr. Robot the correct weights.

You can make him right/wrong.

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2430-to-those-people-who-ask-why-does-mr-robot-do-x-and-y/

[Zagam 1,982]

AMR is a tool that is dictated in usefulness by its user.  A city boy isn't going to go out in the woods and cut up a tree for firewood if I give him my best chainsaw.  Give me a shitty chainsaw and I'll make it happen anyways.  Point is - if you know how to use AMR, it's fine.  If you don't, it's not going to work for you.  Sure, it's not 100% accurate, but what really is?  I certainly am not.  Neither is any human on this board.  Demanding "perfection" and "absolute truths" in this game are absurd to chase.  Tools are in place to assist you in optimizing your play, but there isn't a damn tool out there that replaces practice and execution.  If you expect gems, secondary stats, or other people to make your gameplay better, the only tool out there is you.

[Nalar 0]

Well said zagam, AMR is a tool and a useful tool, (that's why I asked about it) , I've had no problems with it and to everyone ' do you really want to spend longer than nessisary number crunching and wondering if you had done the right set up or not .

But all this discussion hasn't answered my question, the new style AMR need some tips on it, and mor appropriately on 'doing the right thing' when it comes to editing weights.

Nalar

[vaeevictiss 17]

well if you're splitting wood with a chainsaw you're doing it wrong

 

They should just get rid of gem slots and give JCs something new to do.

Edited October 21, 2014 by vaeevictiss

[Lockybalboa 618]

well if you're splitting wood with a chainsaw you're doing it wrong

 

They should just get rid of gem slots and give JCs something new to do.

 

 

Tbh, I'm becoming a fan more and more of the WoW 2.0 idea the longer this goes on. A total scrap of the current game, new models made from the ground up for everything in the game, strip it down to Vanilla-amount content, do things right from the start like stat inflation, professions, game mechanics, etc. Make the game with a clear line between casual and hard core content. Redo PvP so that it isn't broken as hell every other season.

 

Go big or go home.

[vaeevictiss 17]

That has probably been their intent the entire time but the game just got so massive with a player base unheard of in the history of gaming. With that many people you have to try to meet so many goals it becomes nearly unrealistic to do it without upsetting other people. 

[Zagam 1,982]

well if you're splitting wood with a chainsaw you're doing it wrong

 

They should just get rid of gem slots and give JCs something new to do.

Listen, I love my outdoors, but if you think I'm hacking at a tree 10 feet in circumference with an axe for 4 hours instead of taking a chainsaw, cutting it into serviceable chunks, and THEN splitting it with an axe, you are one crazy sunuvabitch.  I've cut a tree down Johnny Appleseed style.  I regretted it for 2 weeks.  Nothing is worse than a back you can't bend.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I never minded felling or making fire wood, it was getting stumps out that I hated. Rather split 10 cords of wood then take out a stump.

[Krazyito 521]

Well said zagam, AMR is a tool and a useful tool, (that's why I asked about it) , I've had no problems with it and to everyone ' do you really want to spend longer than nessisary number crunching and wondering if you had done the right set up or not .

But all this discussion hasn't answered my question, the new style AMR need some tips on it, and mor appropriately on 'doing the right thing' when it comes to editing weights.

Nalar

I'll look into it late tonight (I'm gonna be out all day) but let me know what you're looking for in gems mainly and if you are trying to compare gear in your bags and what not.

The weights come from either SimC (you can even export some SimC code from AMR) or just knowledge of your class and what you want out of it. I never know what warlock need, for me as a druid it's easy as mastery > haste > crit.

[vaeevictiss 17]

Listen, I love my outdoors, but if you think I'm hacking at a tree 10 feet in circumference with an axe for 4 hours instead of taking a chainsaw, cutting it into serviceable chunks, and THEN splitting it with an axe, you are one crazy sunuvabitch.  I've cut a tree down Johnny Appleseed style.  I regretted it for 2 weeks.  Nothing is worse than a back you can't bend.

 

haha, no, i didnt mean cutting the tree down, i meant splitting it into firewood.

[Zagam 1,982]

I went to a wood cutting party where this dude has friends over to cut all the wood he needs for the winter (northern WV, for reference).  His wife feeds us, he gets us drunk after - all good and fun.  When I showed up, I wanted to be manly and swing an axe.  He has automatic wood splitters for the old guys so they can sit there, smoke their cigs, drink their whiskey, and put pieces of wood under hydraulic pumps that chop wood. 

 

I ended up just driving a four wheeler with loads of wood back and forth from the cutting pile to the stacking pile.  Sometimes, technology sucks lol

[Lockybalboa 618]

I lived/worked a farm during highschool, for us it was more like "cut wood or go cold" so we cut the damn wood. Cut wood to stay warm during a harsh winter, all winter, and you start to look longingly at the automatic cutter that the girls school got to use. 

[vaeevictiss 17]

yea log splitters are the way to go. When i moved to my place in VA i had fell some trees and split them and that lasted a few years. Now im lazy, i just order a huge truck full of wood from this guy i know and just stack it myself. that lasts me all winter.

[Zagam 1,982]

If you live within a 5 hour drive of Morgantown, WV, I will come split wood with you anywhere.  Just feed me.

[vaeevictiss 17]

lol, Im in Louisa which is about 4 1/2 but no worries. The wood i get is a good price and there no crap like pine in it. That would be a lot of gas to make that drive to just split wood haha.

[Zagam 1,982]

I drive a 2013 Mazda 3 - I can get anywhere within 5.5 hours on one tank of gas which costs me a measly $40.  Warlocks using 2H axes and relying on strength just makes me giddy, that's all.

[Liquidsteel 279]

So to conclude this thread, the trick to max DPS is 10% gemming, 10% play style and 80% wood chopping.

[Lockybalboa 618]

So to conclude this thread, the trick to max DPS is 10% gemming, 10% play style and 80% wood chopping.

 

QFT