[Balance] WoD 6.0 Guide: When the Stars Align

[Pinkis 12]

Kaz, maybe you've ran sims lately? I'm looking forward to our stat weights, as chosing gear atm is pain in the ass... It's rather hard to determine which item is better when comparing two of them, unless the answer is completely obvious. I was looking for something like Stoove posted here https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7615-resto-stat-weights-for-wod/to evaluate my gear. If you have it - please share with us :}

[dudas92 1]

kaz, dunno if u answered or not but if u did i can't see it.
so here's my question again:

When you choose the Euphoria talent (http://www.wowdb.com...152222-euphoria), your balance cycle duration changes from 40 secs to 20, which means that your moonfire DoT will be up on the target (considering that you refresh it on a lunar peak) for 2 full cycles. Should I refresh it anyways on a lunar peak even when there are still 20 secs to go on the DoT duration or just refresh it when it is about to expire (on a lunar peak every 2 cycles)?  

Best regards and once again thank you for the great post!

Edited December 2, 2014 by dudas92

[Kazistrasz 216]

<ignore this post as it was based on an unnoticed change in SimC profiles>

[Kazistrasz 216]

<ignore this post as it was based on an unnoticed change in SimC profiles>

[Pinkis 12]

Thanks for info Kaz! Just one quick question to clarify changes. As we should be using Stellar flare (I've been using Euphoria since I hit 100) where should we put it in our ST rotation? As I think it should be refreshed as we're about to run out of current eclipse and hit another one. This would be like "transition spell", right? It's simple stuff, but I want to make sure I get it right ^.^ 

[Cavo 0]

I was wondering if you could explain a bit about stellar flare to me. Other places it's never talked about because people list it as subpar compared to euphoria or balance of power, but you actually go the other way and say it's the best of the three. How do you use it to maximize it's potential over the other two in both single target and multi target fights?

Edited December 4, 2014 by Cavo

[Kazistrasz 216]

<ignore this post as it was based on an unnoticed change in SimC profiles>

[Mustard 0]

I need to update the rotation part on that. Sorry! It's very busy during the weeks for me with my job. Stellar Flare becomes your pre-cast at the opener instead of Starfire. Otherwise, you treat it like any other DoT: don't use it until it's going to run out. If you're getting close to the transition (0 energy), and you're within the 30% "Pandemic" range (i.e., 6 seconds left), go ahead and do it then. Don't obsess over using it around 0 energy - you want to refresh it often enough to have 99.8% uptime on it but not so often that you're refreshing it with more than 6 seconds left.

So is Stellar Flare the best option atm?

[Kazistrasz 216]

Read talents section or above posts.

[nefigah 26]

Thanks for the guide! I have a couple of questions since I'm quite new to Balance...

• Regarding DoTs and energy:
  

  If you're getting close to the transition (0 energy), and you're within the 30% "Pandemic" range (i.e., 6 seconds left), go ahead and do it then. Don't obsess over using it around 0 energy - you want to refresh it often enough to have 99.8% uptime on it but not so often that you're refreshing it with more than 6 seconds left.

  Does the above quoted advice basically apply to Moon/Sunfire as well? (That is, only worry about hitting a Peak if you're in Pandemic range, and if the DoT isn't up, it's better to put it up right away instead of waiting for energy?) For example, if you're doing a dungeon or something and a boss is pulled while CA is on cooldown, would you put up Moonfire right away (and put up Sunfire the moment it becomes castable)?
• How does energy factor in to Starsurge usage? Should you only use it if you'd be able to fit the next 2 Starfall/3 Wrath in their respective eclipse-buffed phases?
• If the answer to #2 is no, should you keep trying to use up the Empowerment charges even if your energy cycles to the other side in the process?
• When you say "dump all Starsurge charges during a trinket proc," you do that via Starsurge->use up Empowerment charges->Starsurge->use up Empowerment charges right?

Thanks!

[Kazistrasz 216]

Great questions! I like it when they're game play and not stats.

 

1. So, you mostly take the same approach to Moonfire and Sunfire.  You see, DoTs don't do a lot of DPS (damage per second).  They do have the chance to give you SS procs, but that's not why we care so much about DoTs. When you push the button for your DoT, it's an instant effect but it takes up a baseline 1.5 seconds (one global cooldown) upon activation.  We call this "execution time".  DoTs do a LOT of damage over the course of their duration.  All of that damage comes from that one GCD.  This means that while their DPS is low, DoTs have very high DPET (damage per execution time).  When you refresh a DoT early, you're resetting the amount of damage from that one GCD, which means you just ruined the DPET of the last time you used the spell.  TL;DR: Only refresh Moonfire/Sunfire with Lunar/Solar Peak if the DoT will expire before your next lunar/solar phase.

 

2. No. When it's time to use Starsurge, it's time to use Starsurge. The empowerment buffs last 30 seconds, so even if only have enough time to use one charge before you switch energy phases, the remainder will still be there when your energy bar comes back around.

 

3. Just save them for when you're back in phase.

 

4. Yes. Always use up your empowerment charges before using SS again. If there's a time that you need to use SS to avoid capping but you have charges left, hit Starfall. Otherwise, just use up your empowerments before SSing again.

[Albear 0]

Thanks for the updates! Keep up the good work.

 

I was just wondering since we take Stellar Flare as a talent now is it still worth it to cast Starfall on two targets during solar or only on lunar?

[Kazistrasz 216]

Nothing about Starfall changed. Two targets all the time regardless of phase. Use it single target when you need to use SS to avoid capping but still have empowerment buffs.

[nefigah 26]

Thank you for the reply, this helps a lot!
 

1. So, you mostly take the same approach to Moonfire and Sunfire.  You see, DoTs don't do a lot of DPS (damage per second).  They do have the chance to give you SS procs, but that's not why we care so much about DoTs. When you push the button for your DoT, it's an instant effect but it takes up a baseline 1.5 seconds (one global cooldown) upon activation.  We call this "execution time".  DoTs do a LOT of damage over the course of their duration.  All of that damage comes from that one GCD.  This means that while their DPS is low, DoTs have very high DPET (damage per execution time).

So their high DPET means if the DoT has fallen off/isn't up yet, my priority is to cast them regardless of my energy level, because the small DPS increase from energy/Peak bonus isn't significant enough to wait for, right? (DoTs don't snapshot their energy level when cast anymore, iirc?)
 

2. No. When it's time to use Starsurge, it's time to use Starsurge. The empowerment buffs last 30 seconds, so even if only have enough time to use one charge before you switch energy phases, the remainder will still be there when your energy bar comes back around.

Great to know. On a related note, it's not worth canceling my Starfire cast if I see the energy meter flip to the other phase while I'm casting it, correct?
 

3. Just save them for when you're back in phase.
 
4. Yes. Always use up your empowerment charges before using SS again. If there's a time that you need to use SS to avoid capping but you have charges left, hit Starfall. Otherwise, just use up your empowerments before SSing again.

Roger. Thanks again!

Edited December 6, 2014 by nefigah

[Kazistrasz 216]

So their high DPET means if the DoT has fallen off/isn't up yet, my priority is to cast them regardless of my energy level, because the small DPS increase from energy/Peak bonus isn't significant enough to wait for, right? (DoTs don't snapshot their energy level when cast anymore, iirc?)

 

Correct.

 

 

Great to know. On a related note, it's not worth canceling my Starfire cast if I see the energy meter flip to the other phase while I'm casting it, correct?

 

Also correct. Make sure you're paying attention to your energy bar enough that you don't make the wrong choice on spell to begin with, but whatever spell you cast see it through.

[Talyna 0]

Kazi, thank you for your work and thoroughness on this guide.

 

I was wondering how you arrived at the conclusion that Inc/StF is always the best talent choice.  I'm not a high-end raider, but my guild is serious about progression this expansion and I want to bring the best toolbox I can for our raids.

 

After reading your guide, I tried out the Inc/StF build in a few heroic dungeons.  Granted, it always takes time to integrate a new spell into a rotation, but my first impression was that Inc/StF wasn't pulling the same numbers I had been in my former Inc/BoP build (which I had been running based on Cyous's class guide), even with a few gear upgrades.

 

I then took a look at what top Balance Druids were running, referencing the DPS rankings on Warcraft Logs, and found that almost all were running Euphoria builds, most commonly SoF/Euphoria, a choice I hadn't really considered.  I tested SoF/Euphoria in a couple of heroics, and found it felt significantly stronger than both Inc/BoP and Inc/StF.

 

Not trusting my subjective experience as an out-of-practice Balance Druid, and given the wide discrepancies in the Balance guides I had read, I then decided to run my own sims on SimCraft.  I used my current gear profile (heroic dungeon, iLvl 635) and ran sims for each fight type and each Tier 4/Tier 7 talent combination.  Surprisingly, SoF/Euphoria came out ahead in every scenario, except in one instance--for a "Hectic Cleave" type fight, Inc/StF did pull out slightly ahead, but only by a few hundred DPS.  SoF/Euphoria resulted in around 1K more DPS for all other fight types.  (Interestingly, on a Patchwerk type fight, Soul of the Forest simmed as a stronger talent than Incarnation regardless of the Tier 7 talent chosen.)

 

Therefore, I'm wondering if your recommendations are based on a different gear level, a specific stat build, or something else.  I'm certainly no expert at either Balance or SimCraft, so it's very possible that I'm missing something.

 

Here are the numbers I got from my simulations:

 

Patchwerk*

Soul of the Forest/Euphoria:  19524 

SoF/Balance of Power:  18629 

SoF/Stellar Flare:  18574 

 

*SoF was a pretty strong winner over Incarnation, so regretfully, I didn't record the Incarnation sims.  I may rerun these later for the sake of completionism.

 

Hectic Cleave

Inc/StF:  25693 

Inc/BoP:  25470 

Inc/Euphoria:  25297 

SoF/StF:  25240

SoF/BoP:  25251

SoF/Euphoria:  25248 

 

Light Movement

Inc/StF:  17877

Inc/BoP:  17917

Inc/Euphoria:  18807

SoF/StF:  17864

SoF/BoP:  18146

SoF/Euphoria:  19058

 

Heavy Movement

Inc/StF:  14726

Inc/BoP:  14721

Inc/Euphoria:  15634

SoF/StF:  14726

SoF/BoP:  14904

SoF/Euphoria:  15814

 

Based on these results, I can see the reasoning for switching to Inc/StF for multitarget cleave fights to pull out a bit more DPS, but SoF/Euphoria seems optimal for all other situations.  Since all of the various talent choices come in within 500 DPS of each other for the cleave simulation, it doesn't seem that Inc/StF would pull ahead overall just because of its advantage here.  I don't even know if I would go through the trouble switching for a few hundred dps, especially if movement was also a large factor in the fight.  I can see that Inc/StF might be good in situations requiring high burst, but again, not sure this would make up for the difference overall.

 

I'm interested to know your reasoning.  Meanwhile, I'm going into my first Highmaul (Normal) later today, which will be the real test.  

Edited December 7, 2014 by Talyna

[Dexteris 0]

It suprise me a bit too that Stellar Flair is the best single target dps talent. I even went to try on a dummy for 5 minutes with both Euphoria and SNF. I had 800 more dps with Euphoria.

 

Is your results based on the movement you will do on each boss of Highmaul?

[Kazistrasz 216]

<ignore this post as it was based on an unnoticed change in SimC profiles>

[Talyna 0]

I agree, Kazi--I certainly would not judge the value of talents based purely off of five-man performance or target dummies, especially since I just picked up the class again after going on hiatus during MoP.  That's why I ran sims myself, read all the guides I could find, and looked at the builds of advanced Balance Druids (most had a current iLevel around 652).

 

Higher gear levels (maybe a much higher Mastery rating?) may certainly lead to different results, which is why I asked the question--I'm really curious to know what is causing Inc/StF to pull ahead in your sims.  If it's a stat breakpoint, it would be helpful to know what that breakpoint is as I progress.  And if there is a big difference in talent choices at different gear levels, it might be worth noting that in your guide for the benefit of us less elite boomkins.  

 

I will continue to run SimC as my gear level increases and see how it plays out, and I look forward to seeing your most recent sim results.

[Kazistrasz 216]

So, here's the deal, and it's kind of embarrassing but mostly frustrating. Sometime in the last month, the profile writer for boomkin changed the format for indicating which talents to use in the simulation.  As a result, all the crap I did the other day is wrong. I was seeing the same results, but attributing them to the wrong talents.

 

Euphoria and Soul of the Forest are still the best talents for single target.

 

Euphoria is a 4% to 5% gain over the other talents depending on your T4 talent choice and your gear level.  Similarly, Soul of the Forest is a 0.7% to 1.5% gain over the other choices there, as it was before.  For multi-target, including two target, you still want to use Stellar Flare with Incarnation.

 

Nothing should change as far as stats go, but I'm recalculating all of that right now.

[Pinkis 12]

I know this is rarely the case, but if we get Empowered moonkin buff - when is it worth to cast wrath? Cause simply thinking one would want to use Starfire as it has bigger base damage than wrath and both spells have no cast time. So there must be a point in eclipse powerbar where one spell would become better than the other. 

By writing I just realised one simple thing - this is just basic math. According to spell tooltips, wrath does 117% of spellpower damage, while starfire does 187.2%. From that I can tell that wrath needs to get 60% empowerment to be equal to Starfire. So basically I need to have 60% bonus solar damage on peak to chose wrath. In other words - Starfire should be my default spell to use Empowered moonkin regardless of my current eclipse state. 

Someone check and fix my thoughts on this thing :)

[Kazistrasz 216]

Yes, use it on Starfire unless you have a 60% mastery buff at that moment. Thus doesn't have to be at the peak, and is totally based on mastery.

[dudas92 1]

and which is the best secondary stat afterall? crit or mastery?

[Kazistrasz 216]

Nothing changed for stat run downs.

[Pinkis 12]

Yes, use it on Starfire unless you have a 60% mastery buff at that moment. Thus doesn't have to be at the peak, and is totally based on mastery.

 

But if I'm not at peak, that means that Starfire gets eclipse bonus aswell, according to how eclipse works atm. If I understood the graph, it says that if solar gets bonus X%, lunar gets (Y - X)% where Y is maximum bonus and X is between 0 and Y.

That means if I have 60% solar bonus at peak, I have less solar and a little bit of lunar bonus if i'm towards solar peak.

I'm not sure if i'm correct, but if i had 100% bonus at peak, that means wrath is worth using at roughly [70-100] solar power interval. 

 

Edit:

I've applied same thinking to simple wrath and starfire casts with 15% haste and 50% mastery bonus (thats ~ my current stats) w/o considering empowerments. "Power balance" is not at the middle of the eclipse bar, but a bit towards solar peak (~20 energy), meaning that it is not a dps loss to finish casting starfire a bit into solar. 

This theory bases on assumption that empowerment is linear over time, and 50 lunar power means 75% buff for lunar spells, and 25% for solar spells (% value of maximum buff).

Edited December 9, 2014 by Pinkis