[Balance] WoD 6.0 Guide: When the Stars Align

[Kazistrasz 216]

It's not about raw damage. It's about damage per execution time, which worKS a bit different. You also can't take the same logic when you have a changing buff. Is it better to finish a Starfire .5 seconds into solar or finish a Wrath .5 seconds early and have your next land at 1.5 seconds into solar?

There are a lot of variables in there that require a lot more than napkin math yo answer. I usually go with Wrath finishing a fraction of a second early.

[Pinkis 12]

Well, yep. But it's all about when you finish a cast. And starfire has higher base DPET. 

wrath dpet = 117 / 2 = 58.5

starfire dpet = 187.2 / 3 = 62.4

 

So based on that it's not a dps loss to finish casting starfire a bit into solar, and it is a dps loss to finish casting wrath at the middle of powerbar.

[Kazistrasz 216]

You're still over-simplifying it trying to come up with a rule. That's also assuming they go off at the same time. That's also ignoring how it affects your damage in the rest of the cycle by offsetting at what point in the cycle you start.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong.  I'm saying you're not accounting for everything.

[dudas92 1]

i usually go with the starfire finishing a bit into solar as well since i think it is better to finish the cast and get that stronger spell dmg than canceling it and losing the time u alrdy took to start the cast or risk casting wrath too soon and ending up still in lunar or in the middle of the bar.

[dudas92 1]

and so mastery is ultimately the best secondary stat right?

[Pinkis 12]

You're still over-simplifying it trying to come up with a rule. That's also assuming they go off at the same time. That's also ignoring how it affects your damage in the rest of the cycle by offsetting at what point in the cycle you start.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong.  I'm saying you're not accounting for everything.

Yes, I'm taking it out of whole damaging context just because I was curious. I'm taking into account just one spell cast finishing at the same time - as you say. This doesn't change anything, just how I'm going to use my Empowered Moonkin procs. For normal eclipse cycling I'm still going to try finish my wrath casts in solar and Starfire casts in lunar. What I've found doesn't affect the rotation, it's just knowing things :)

 

And yeah, about what dudas asked - stats. I'm still curious about boomkin stat weights, as I want to determine which piece of gear is better for me. I've found this:

 

Intellect 5.24

Spell Power 4.95

Haste Rating 2.61

Mastery Rating 2.58

Critical Rating 2.50

Multistrike 2.40

Versatility 2.08

Stat weights determined from SimulationCraft version 603-7

 

As I do not understand how to use simcraft, and can't find time to learn it, I'd like someone to comment on this. 

 

P.S.: Kaz, I know that you do not like gear questions, and it is pretty much all about how you play your class, but as it is now, I'm being forced to use weights cause I'm not sure if lets say 636 wf item is better than my current 630 item.. And I really need to know ! :)

[Kazistrasz 216]

Secondary stats for boomkin are close enough in value that, yes, you're going to use the higher item level piece.  Don't debate between 636 and 630, just use the higher item level piece since you're going to be soon replacing it with 655 or 670.

 

The best advice I can give you is, and I'm being totally honest here, don't worry about running anything through SimC if you don't know what you're looking for or what the proper indicators are. When SimCraft does scaling on stats and calculates scale factors, that's specific to the exact set of gear you put in, and the instant you change anything your scale factors become different. You can't go by those little numbers that it spits out.

[Pendji 0]

1/7 mythic feral here, considering changing to moonkin as I'm far too used to casting to run around like an idiot, pretending I'm melee when it's essentially just dotting from melee.

 

I did SoO mythic with balance, although that barely says anything with the eclipse changes. Anyway. I use SotF/Euphoria, but everything seems to speed out of control already within 2-3 swings.

 

After my initial CA starsurge/fire spam, I usually seem to get two good starfires off near the top, but when I'm close to switching I'm really uncertain when it's worth casting starfire ending inside  solar, or if it's better to wait .8 seconds and starsurge, and then cast wrath from about halfway towards solar eclipse.

 

Truth be told I'm not sure how much of a percentage extra dmg is dealt at which point on the bar, but I assume the top 1/3 of either side is the best, which makes euphoria seem really odd, as you speed past it if you have the slightest pause in your rotation.

 

Second thing is regarding dot refreshing. It's said fairly often that it doesn't matter when it's refreshed, does that mean it's better to shoot some really high wraths out, and then refresh sunfire right before leaving solar? The few times I've tried that, it fit a lot better with a starsurge into two starfires near top lunar.

 

 

 

[Kazistrasz 216]

I default to letting a Wrath finish a little early rather than letting a Starfire finish a little late.  There's a lot of stuff to go into figuring out which is always correct, and it's really more than I've had time to try to go calculating.  The best answer is probably whichever would finish casting closer to 0, but it's really not going to make that huge a difference in DPS.

 

The beginning of this guide explains how the damage bonus from eclipse works (link).

 

Don't refresh a DoT unless you're in "pandemic" range (<12 seconds left for Moonfire, <7 seconds left for Sunfire) or it won't last until your energy comes back around and you're able to refresh it again.  This also happens to work out in a way that you'll most of the time be able to just refresh with the lunar/solar peak buff.  Don't refresh before pandemic range just to use the buff, but if you reach pandemic range and the DoT won't run out until you've got the peak buff hold off until you get the peak buff.

[Lilija 0]

So first I wanted to say, really nice guide - the only one so far I've seen that actually makes sense :)

 

Now I have some doubts about talent combinations. I understand where you are comming from with certain choises but there was always this issue with maths vs reality.

 

So first single target combination: I understand math (simcraft) says SotF is better than INC. Then I do wonder why on [M]Butcher that is "the Patchwerk" of this content I have yet to find a moonkin that isn't using INC.

 

As multitarget: I've actually found one top log that was using StF on Twin Ogron, however, it seems that the majority doesn't want to be bothered with it as Euphoria seems so much more convinient. For now it looks like StF is our new DoC which on paper was better for multitarget, yet the hassle it required, was not worth it in practice (there also was the argument of HotW being a really strong raid utility back then)

 

Anyway, I by no means want to undermine your findings since as I've said I know where they are comming from. But I've often found myself in tought spot when deciding between math and reality. I often tend to lean more towards practice as math can only operate in certain more or less perfect model.

[Krazyito 521]

Personally, I found stellar flare to be ok on mythic twin ogrons. I was moving so much that for the majority of the fight I was just recasting the dots and using starfall.

It may be that I still need more practice dpsing in general, but the slower Eclipse let my starfall be a bit more effective as well as a bit more time to use my empowerment when I get a chance to cast.

[Turbochicken 1]

I'm on board with basically everything Lilija said, so thank you to Lilija for putting it so well and thank you to Kazistrasz for this thread, it is much better than anything else I've found. 

 

Incarnation may be better on The Butcher because the fight tends to last 3:30 - 4:00 for the ranking groups. This fight length nearly maximizes Incarnation's benefit. On most of these fights, I find the burst is more important than overall DPS anyway.

[Kazistrasz 216]

First, a warning: Looking through logs of guilds finishing early progression is dangerous and can lead to many wrong assumptions. Early progression means less gear, which means sometimes weird stuff has to be done in terms of talent and spec choices just to be able to survive or to handle particular mechanics or due to a particular strat being done.

 

Second, you do have a good point - fight mechanics are important, and you should never blindly follow a guide without thinking about them (even mine).

 

That said, it's a little different from math vs. reality. Math vs. Reality would be comparing WrathCalcs (a boomkin spreadsheet) that calculates what everything should be.  SimC is a simulation, meaning it's build to model reality. Everything but fight mechanics are in place, and fight length is a little different. If you take a pure single target fight with no mechanics and run it for about 5-6 minutes, SimC is 100% correct. Butcher is a special case.

 

Butcher on Mythich as a 4-minute enrage timer.  This means the boss has to die shortly after you get your second set of cooldowns, and your opener counts for much more. Inc makes your opener stronger and lines up with cooldowns.  When you're killing the boss right after your second Inc + CA, the talent shines more.  It's a situation unique to having a fight that short.  It's the same reason everyone was using Inc during Mythic SoO - fights were so short that your opener was half your DPS.

 

Twins is a different case, and it's going to be dependent on several things.  If you have both targets in range most of the time and you're able to actually keep it up on both targets, Stellar Flare is the way to go.  If the way the fight works out for your guild (notice most guilds do this differently) and you can't actually use Stellar Flare or you mostly have just one target in range, then Euphoria is going to be stronger.

[Fadawah 0]

Thank you for this amazing guide, but there's one thing that isn't really clear to me.

 

Should I start casting Wrath right before I change alignments (= when the arrow crosses the middle) or should I finish that one Starfire even if this means I'll be in Solar (= when the arrow has almost reached the far right) when my cast finishes?

 

I'm honestely a bit confused about the whole alignment thing :(

 

 

For example, does Wrath benefit from Solar alignment regardless of the direction the arrow progresses or does it only benefit from Solar alignment when it progresses from right to left? If it benefits from Solar alignment the moment it crosses the middle (the white line in the screenshot), does this mean I should immediately start casting Wrath the moment I cross that line?

 

Thank you so much!

[Krazyito 521]

You want to make sure your cast finishes in the correct eclipse (i.e. when you finish casting wrath you should be in solar, etc) So ideally, you're going to start casting wrath a little bit before you cross the middle threshold.

 

The reason you're a bit confused is because of the way ElvUI shows the eclipse bar.  When ever the arrow is on the right side of the bar, you're in solar and when you're on the left your'e in lunar.

 

I would recommend getting a new type of eclipse bar. The Elvui one can be a little more confusing to read.  I personally recommend this one via Weak Auras

 

Here is a post we made a while back that has some other community made auras.

[Randytaylor 1]

 

Thank you for this amazing guide, but there's one thing that isn't really clear to me.

 

Should I start casting Wrath right before I change alignments (= when the arrow crosses the middle) or should I finish that one Starfire even if this means I'll be in Solar (= when the arrow has almost reached the far right) when my cast finishes?

 

I'm honestely a bit confused about the whole alignment thing

 

 

For example, does Wrath benefit from Solar alignment regardless of the direction the arrow progresses or does it only benefit from Solar alignment when it progresses from right to left? If it benefits from Solar alignment the moment it crosses the middle (the white line in the screenshot), does this mean I should immediately start casting Wrath the moment I cross that line?

 

Thank you so much!

 

I prefer the elvui eclipse tracker because all you need is a visual reference and I like the minimalism. What you can do is detach it from the unitframe, drag it anywhere you want, in my case I have it centered in the screen near my cast bar. Then you can enlarge it too for easier reading, and you can also create a font string if you go to the player frame selection, go to custom text and just name it eclipse or whatever. Then select it and in the text box at the bottom put [classpowercolor][classpower:current], and try to adjust the x and y placement for the text where ever you need it.

[Fadawah 0]

You want to make sure your cast finishes in the correct eclipse (i.e. when you finish casting wrath you should be in solar, etc) So ideally, you're going to start casting wrath a little bit before you cross the middle threshold.

 

The reason you're a bit confused is because of the way ElvUI shows the eclipse bar.  When ever the arrow is on the right side of the bar, you're in solar and when you're on the left your'e in lunar.

 

I would recommend getting a new type of eclipse bar. The Elvui one can be a little more confusing to read.  I personally recommend this one via Weak Auras

 

Here is a post we made a while back that has some other community made auras.

 

Thank you soo soo much. I've been breaking my head over this for days. I love this class, but this bit frustrated me a bit. 

 

 

I prefer the elvui eclipse tracker because all you need is a visual reference and I like the minimalism. What you can do is detach it from the unitframe, drag it anywhere you want, in my case I have it centered in the screen near my cast bar. Then you can enlarge it too for easier reading, and you can also create a font string if you go to the player frame selection, go to custom text and just name it eclipse or whatever. Then select it and in the text box at the bottom put [classpowercolor][classpower:current], and try to adjust the x and y placement for the text where ever you need it.

 

Thank you as well, mate. I followed both your advices and imported the WeakAuras setup from another thread here on Icy-Veins.

 

[Turbochicken 1]

OP's BIS list puts crit enchants on top, and I'm already getting this as my top stat from scale factors using my armory profile. 

 

Is it safe to throw out the generalization "use mastery enchants" and to trust sim scales and go with crit? 

Edited January 10, 2015 by Turbochicken

[Pinkis 12]

I'd like to bump his post and get some info about current boomkin stat priority.. I know it's all about how you play, but still, I want to chose best item I can get :) 

[Krazyito 521]

It stays relatively the same.  Haste just goes up slighlty and mastery goes down, but not enough that anything overtakes another

[Pinkis 12]

So its still "Int >>>> Mastery >= Haste = Crit > Multistrike >> Versatility" ? I just want to make it clear :) 

[Krazyito 521]

I would say crit over haste, but it's all pretty close. 

[Salmora 0]

January 12

Secondary Stats

    The Haste stat is now 11.1% more effective. For example, characters at level 100 now receive a 1% increase per 90 Haste (up from 1% per 100 Haste).

 

Balance

    Mastery: Total Eclipse’s effects have been increased by 6.7%.

 

Those changes might have been missed by someone, due to the fast hotfixes made on 13 of January.

 

In my opinion this gives mastery an edge over the rest of the secondary stats, with crit getting a minor preference over haste due to the basic number multiplier.

[Pinkis 12]

Em, anyone has done any calculations towards 6.1? I'm looking forward to make a list of items I wanna get, so I'd like to know my stat priority for that. As far as I know Mastery stays on top, and I'm actually not sure about my other stats.. Furthermore will Inc+Euphoria will still be the best for single target?

[dudas92 1]

isn't Soul of the Forest still better than Incarnation?

Edited February 2, 2015 by dudas92