Expertise for Mages?!

[Totemmatic 0]

Ok so I still can't find a clear answer anywhere...

I got my mage to lvl 90, cafted her some ilvl 450 pvp gear, and have been able to run heroics. I know I need to reforge things so I used askmrrobot. It's telling me to reforge for hit and expertise. I understand why I need hit but expertise?

When I put my cursor over the expertise stat on my mages character page it in no way shows me that expertise will be benificial for my caster dps.

Can somebody please explain to me why I'm supposed to have expertise?

[Sagetastic 20]

Ok so I still can't find a clear answer anywhere...

I got my mage to lvl 90, cafted her some ilvl 450 pvp gear, and have been able to run heroics. I know I need to reforge things so I used askmrrobot. It's telling me to reforge for hit and expertise. I understand why I need hit but expertise?

When I put my cursor over the expertise stat on my mages character page it in no way shows me that expertise will be benificial for my caster dps.

Can somebody please explain to me why I'm supposed to have expertise?

I haven't used askmrrobot for some time, and never really liked it for anything other than getting a quick hit cap in a pinch.

I'd recommend trying ReforgeLite instead, as it makes experimenting with stat weights very easy.

http://www.curse.com...wow/reforgelite

edit: I was wrong, but I still like this addon.

Mages have NO use for expertise.

~Sage

Edited October 1, 2012 by Sagetastic

[shadofall 2]

expertise now contribuites to hit for casters. if your not at the hit cap, for items that you cant reforge to hit it will suggest exp to get you to the hit cap.

[Zoopercat 22]

Totemmatic, like Shadofall said, expertise now contributes to your spell hit cap. So if an item already has +Hit on it, another stat can be reforged to +Exp to get you closer to the hit cap. If you give me your character name and realm, I'll do a little screenshot magic to help explain this for your particular case :)

[Totemmatic 0]

Fieryicicles. Skullcrusher.

The thing I find odd is it also told me to enchant for expertise, gem for it, and to reforge for it.

Why not just go for hit? It would seem that if they want you to gem and enchant for it that it would seem like, according to what wow shows expertise to do, your spells can be parried or dodged. I thought it could only miss, which hit takes care of, or be resisted. Also if it can contribute to your spells, which when I reforged for it I did see my hit chance go up, why not also put it under the Spell section as well?...

[Sagetastic 20]

Fieryicicles. Skullcrusher.

The thing I find odd is it also told me to enchant for expertise, gem for it, and to reforge for it.

Why not just go for hit? It would seem that if they want you to gem and enchant for it that it would seem like, according to what wow shows expertise to do, your spells can be parried or dodged. I thought it could only miss, which hit takes care of, or be resisted. Also if it can contribute to your spells, which when I reforged for it I did see my hit chance go up, why not also put it under the Spell section as well?...

We are benefiting from a change intended to make the lives of rogues easier. I had to ask a friend "What the hell?" when I read the responses to these and they pointed how when 5.0.4 went live rogues now had to get 15% melee hit and 7.5% expertise.

The amount of hit alone rogues then had to get was very unfair, so to fix this blizz made it so expertise effected spell hit, that way rogues only had to get 7.5% expertise and 7.5% hit.

However, now we can use expertise to make it easier for us to get spell hit capped, since none of our gear has expertise on it.

~Sage

Edited October 1, 2012 by Sagetastic

[Totemmatic 0]

Makes more sense now ty!

Although, I still say they need to put Expertise under the Spell list in th character window and show that it'll increase spell hit....

TY agian for the clarification

Edited October 2, 2012 by Totemmatic

[BrightBrown 4]

I'm seeing issues as I level due to the 5 man hit cap going up 4 full percentage points to 12 from 8. My last level up lost me 2 full percentage points of hit... so I may have to turn to gear with hit to forge some Exp to get closer to the cap.

[Siniwelho 13]

I'm seeing issues as I level due to the 5 man hit cap going up 4 full percentage points to 12 from 8. My last level up lost me 2 full percentage points of hit... so I may have to turn to gear with hit to forge some Exp to get closer to the cap.

If you are a human or gnome mage then using a caster sword/dagger can help here because you will benefit from your racial.

Humans: Sword Specialization (Expertise with Swords and Two-Handed Swords increased by 1%.)

Gnomes: Shortblade Specialization (Expertise with Daggers and One-Handed Swords increased by 1%.)

So wielding a correct weapon will give you 1% Expertise and you will need only 11% more Hit/Expertise for the hit cap for heroic dungeons. Or 14% more for raids.

However Blizzard has not made this easy. As far as I know there is exactly one DPS off-hand dropping from the heroic dungeons;

Bottle of Potent Potables ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=81076 )

And there are no caster swords dropping from the heroic dungeons. The only pre-raid ilvl 463 sword requires Klaxxi exalted:

Amber Saber of Klaxxi'vess ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=89397 )

[Belicosa 11]

So far, none of the reforge calc sites have adjusted correctly for MoP, but updated analysis sites indeed are now saying to supplement hit with expertise.

That said, my gear level is, as of today, 472, giving me plenty of hit (I've even had to start reforging some out), giving me more points to put into mastery and haste. So it would seem that the expertise solution is at best temporary.

[Sagetastic 20]

So far, none of the reforge calc sites have adjusted correctly for MoP, but updated analysis sites indeed are now saying to supplement hit with expertise.

That said, my gear level is, as of today, 472, giving me plenty of hit (I've even had to start reforging some out), giving me more points to put into mastery and haste. So it would seem that the expertise solution is at best temporary.

You should put expertise in all your holes, bro.

Seriously, I'm pmuch mainlining the stat (gem-wise), every extra stat elsewhere can be reforged to maximize your respective spec's dps (ie: haste for frost, crit for fire)

~Sage

[Belicosa 11]

And mastery for Arcane. Which is prime once the soft haste cap is attained.

Had this problem in DS, was clipping my spells when lust hit, forged haste to mastery and my dps increased. I realize things have changed, but I see the same thing coming.

[Siniwelho 13]

...once the soft haste cap is attained.

What is the soft haste cap for Arcane mages? The reforging guide here doesn't mention it.

[Vladamyr 169]

What is the soft haste cap for Arcane mages? The reforging guide here doesn't mention it.

Because of the mechanics changes to haste (it aides in mana regen) I don't believe there is a soft cap anymore (correct me if I'm wrong ). In general, you should follow the statistics priority laid out in the Icy-Veins class guides or allow a reforging site such as http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear to aide you in your reforge/gemming strategies. The only way to further increase your correct gemming strategy is to run a Sim on your particular character http://simulationcraft.org/ due to the complex way in which stat weights interact.

[Siniwelho 13]

Because of the mechanics changes to haste (it aides in mana regen) I don't believe there is a soft cap anymore

Yes, because the number of Arcane Charge stacks doesn't any more affect to the casting time of Arcane Blast there is no need to make sure that the casting time is always greater than the global cooldown time.

It seems that the only haste issues an Arcane mage can have are related to Nether Tempest DoT. The below picture is from Totemspot blog written by Blogenstein. ( http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=44 )

This is a non-goblin chart so for goblins you have to go to Totemspot. For Nether Tempest the interesting information is:

- Without buffs you need 1794 haste points to get an extra tick from Nether Tempest.

- With full raid buffs you need 3056 haste points to get two extra ticks from Nether Tempest.

- With full raid buffs you need 6414 haste points to get three extra ticks from Nether Tempest.