High end heroic melee difference!!

[mkh02 0]

Hey guys

 

I am a lvl 586 fury warrior and I have been analysing top DPS logs on warcraft logs to try to crack top 100 rankings.

 

I hit 30th in US and EU on Thok the other week and been trying to improve my DPS on other bosses.

 

I get that the best players in the world have everything nailed but I was comparing my DPS on Malkorok to the number one warrior and one thing baffles me.

 

Our uptime on the boss is very similar and in terms of melee abilility cast damage I am actually criting more than him but his melee damage is massivley disproportionate to mine over a similar time frame on the boss.

 

I am hitting 76 melee strikes for 345k on the fight but he is hitting 127 casts for 606k!

 

Can anyone explain to me how this is?

 

Our time on the boss is the same and whilst procs etc can make a difference on things like RB and Execute I thought Melee was fairly standard in terms of just being on the boss ad it being an automatic attack?

 

Here is my WOW Armory:

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/dragonblight/Herecles/simple

 

Here is my Warcraft log for Malk:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P1GRygZFK4nXzB9v#fight=13&type=damage-done&source=3

 

Here is his log number 1 DPS on Malk in US and EU:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dLwbX6vc9rzGkMfC#fight=18&type=damage&source=20

 

What is causing that huge disparity in Melee DPS casts?

 

Thanking in advance for any help!

[Sajakain 104]

I haven't looked too much into detail but here's a couple things that cross my mind and may (or may not) explain why there's more "casts" of melee swings:

1. Your WCL report actually reflects a wipe and not a kill. I obviously see bosses past him killed so this may, in fact, be a bug. The log is reflecting more time in combat and, while it may not make up the 51 cast difference, it does affect the numbers to some degree.
2. Is this warrior SMF? That may be a viable explanation and probably more likely than my first thought.

[mkh02 0]

Thanks for the reply mate.

 

Yes it does show a wipe which is strange as we didnt wipe on Malk that night.

 

Maybe something wrong with the data then.

 

The warrior is titans grip

[Sajakain 104]

My next guess is that there's a strategy difference; this may even be as simple as he's chasing Thok while Thok is chasing someone else.

 

_________________________

 

Edit: Ignore that last part. I /facepalmed after I hit submit. You're talking Malk, not Thok.

 

But my original point still stands; there may be a strategy difference. For instance, are you stacking for P2 and ignoring the orbs or are you taking the time to run around and get them?

[Brewmonksta 157]

Hi,

 

I am by no means a warrior expert but i can look at logs pretty well so correct me if i am wrong here guys but this may be the answer :P

 

The only major differences i can see between the 2 logs is enrage uptimes.

Yours is 10% uptime lower than Riku and he has more melee swings per second average over the fight duration.

you

111 seconds with 76 hits = approx 0.68 swings per second

Riku

134 seconds with 127 hits = approx 0.94 swings per second

 

The enrage uptime may be the answer as Riku also has approx 8% more mastery so this will account for some of the damage difference.

At approx 1:04, 1:20 and 1:27 on you logs you have downtime on you melee damage and Riku has no "downtime".

 

These few things multiplied together may be the answer.

 

if i am completely wrong with how these things interact or i have misread something plaese correct me :P

[Sajakain 104]

Enrage doesn't affect swing speed (which would alter the number of melee "casts" / hits). It simply gives Fury and Protection Warriors 10% more damage for 8 seconds. Their melee swings just hit harder; not faster.

 

In addition to this, it's the same concept with a Fury Warrior's Mastery: Mastery: Unshackled Fury; it just directly increases their damage done; not their weapon speed.

______________________

 

Using your math, I became curious as to what would happen if the fights were the same length. Obviously with a difference of 0.26 swings between the two warriors they're not going to swing the same amount of times at the same fight length.

 

If we up the amount of time on Herecles to 134 seconds (to match Riku's time) he would only swing 91 times (0.68 * 134; rounded down). That's still a difference of 36 casts - which, granted, is quite a bit.

 

There's also not much different in item levels but I'd take a stab at comparing Haste values between the two. This would affect weapon speed and if one is significantly higher than the other then, yes, over time that can make the difference.

[Brewmonksta 157]

Their haste values were almost identical(3 points different).

 

I pointed the enrage/mastery out to show that Riku is having a higher melee swing uptime(positioning/strat) and is also having the hit harder by having a better enrage uptime and more mastery.

 

I am aware they have no affect on swing speeds.

 

TL;DR

Riku had more harder hitting melee swings.

[Sajakain 104]

Yeah; the Enrage management easily explains why his DPS is significantly higher, for sure. My take on the original question, however, is why is Riku hitting more often - not why he's hitting harder for more Damage Done / DPS.

 

I fall back to my original opinion - there's a difference in strategies between the two pulls or, even further yet, there simply may be a difference in execution capabilities. 

[Brewmonksta 157]

This is going to get too much warrior for me i think :P

 

By the looks you dont melee during Bladestorm and you have a far higher usage of bladestorm.

21 vs 13 casts

 

Riku has far more Wild strikes

28 vs 8

 

Riku has ALOT more Executes

17 vs 7

 

So because Riku is using less "channelled" abilites he has a higher melee uptime, but overall you are both playing very differently so thats probably why. On the replay the downtime looks like you had to run out and soak a puddle and ran through the boss at some stage.

[dwig102 0]

In digging through the two logs you sent us, the only thing that makes sense to me is that Riku was running SMF for these fights instead of TG, despite what his armory currently says. 

 

The ratio of 1h speed to 2h speed (0.3846 swings per second vs 0.2777 swings per second) should closely resemble the ratio between yours and Riku's melee casts if one of you was TG and the other was SMF (assuming similar values of haste and raid buffs). 2h should have about 72.2% as many casts as 1hers, or 1h should have 38.5% more casts than 2h.

 

1) VS Malkorok as Brewmonksta posted above, you wind up with 0.68 swings per second where Riku winds up with 0.94. (You had a few moments of downtime where your melee swings weren't going off, such as between 01:02 and 01:11 as well as around 01:40, roughly a total of 6 melee swings missed). Let's add those 6 swings in for a total of 82 melee casts in 111 seconds and compare to Riku's 127 swings in 134 seconds. Any way you math it (normalize your 82 casts to his 134 duration, or just compare swings/second), it comes out that you swing about 78% as much as he did. Not exactly 72.2, but the there is some estimation in the 82 swings.

 

2) If you also consider Iron Juggernaut, which I think is an even better example than Malkorok: you both have 100% uptime on the boss with 1 lust (Riku never died, so the second lust couldn't have affected him). Swings per second come out to yours=0.7066, Riku=0.9945, which says you swing 71% as much as Riku did, almost exactly in line with the 1h/2h difference you'd expect.

 

I like the jugg example because there's no question of uptime on the boss, and both of your parses last similar lengths. SMF is the only explanation in my mind as to why he would swing nearly 40% more than you without stacking haste (and he certainly isn't doing that...).

 

Cheers, and good luck!

 

edit: clarification

Edited October 28, 2014 by dwig102

[mkh02 0]

Thank you so much for your time on this guys!

 

Relies were absolutely superb and gave some real insight to other things I haven't got completely down yet.

 

I think you are right. We are similarily geared and there is just no way the percentage differences could account for the swing speed increase.

 

Must have switched to single minded fury which is hitting higher DPS numbers at the moment especially with sudden death procs.

 

I just dont have 2 heroic warforged one handers lol!

 

Maybe I will get lucky this wed :)