Azortharion's 6.2.2 MM Hunter Guide

[Niix 169]

So, I'm kinda curious as to what spec y'all will be running in raids this upcoming week, as in which spec for which boss.  Myself, I will likely be playing MM for all but Tectus, where I will play SV for the AoE at the end (getting all 4/8 motes down faster), but will depend on how well my guild does in quickly learning mechanics and what is expected of me (which I will learn Wed. since my guild takes tuesday off).  I don't see any fights where SV would be better than MM but Tectus, but will have to see, since MM cleave is incredibly strong and none really have consistent AoE where Sv would excel.

 

MM

 

/10char

[Orthios 271]

How many adds are up at one time during Tectus? Are they grouped up or spread out?  Are adds up for more than 50% of the fight or are they bursted down quickly?  I feel like I wouldn't want to roll SV and give up significant portions of my ST DPS unless the adds are up for a significant portion of the fight, since MM can always thrown down an Exp Trap and target 1 add at a time and do only slightly worse than SV, and having Kill Shot is a massive plus for add management, IMO.

Read the guide, he splits into 2 adds when you kill him, and they each split into 4 smaller adds upon death.  Also, Explosive trap hits for less than a weak noodle.

[Atrais 38]

Read the guide, he splits into 2 adds when you kill him, and they each split into 4 smaller adds upon death.  Also, Explosive trap hits for less than a weak noodle.

 

They buffed it recently, it hits for more lately, I have noticed.  I see a DPS increase when there are more than 2 targets. 

I read Tectus but was thinking he was a different boss, the swamp guys with the adds, I know what you are talking about now.  Still think MM would provide more DPS overall, since a significant portion of the fight involve 1-2 targets.

[Niix 169]

Tectus might as well be single target, while there are a lot of different targets, they will very rarely be stacked well enough to get any use out of BM or SV.

[Iridar 80]

So, I'm kinda curious as to what spec y'all will be running in raids this upcoming week, as in which spec for which boss.  Myself, I will likely be playing MM for all but Tectus, where I will play SV for the AoE at the end (getting all 4/8 motes down faster), but will depend on how well my guild does in quickly learning mechanics and what is expected of me (which I will learn Wed. since my guild takes tuesday off).  I don't see any fights where SV would be better than MM but Tectus, but will have to see, since MM cleave is incredibly strong and none really have consistent AoE where Sv would excel.

I'll most likely just stay MM. I haven't watched/read raid guides yet, so I don't know yet raid mechanics I'll be coming up against. Knowing specs' strengths and weaknesses, I'll adjust if the fight requires it. 

 

My thoughts on specs so far. Please comment and add your thoughts if I have missed something. 

 

Marksman

Best single target damage. Strong dependence on weapon damage.  Worst AOE, but can use Barrage for little to no DPS penalty on single target, especially if your gun is much better than the rest of your gear. 

 

Huge bonuses to switching targets - the all powerful Killshot, and careful aim for >80% HP. 

No penalties for switching targets - no DoTs, no buffs or debuffs to keep on target, no pet to stupidly run around. 

 

Overwhelming lack of instant damage. If we're gonna need to kill a 1 HP totem, or 50k HP banner, we're in a bit of a pickle. We can save Chimaera for the occasion, if it can be predicted, but it will be a DPS loss regardless. If the target is gonna live less than 10 seconds, it's probably not even for us to switch to it, as all our casts are 2.5-2.0 seconds. 

 

But, there's an exception - if the MM hunter is the only one who switches, he can realistically take out a weak target just in a few shots, thanks to AiS + Careful Aim, and powerful Chimaera / Kill Shot follow up. 

 

Movement: as far as ranged DPS' go, MM hunter is very mobile, losing only a bit of DPS when constantly on the move. This will become more of an issue deeper in the expansion, as we gain more mastery than just +5-8%. MM has higher DPS from the start, so there's that. So far it seems MM outdamages other specs even with very low mastery uptime.

 

Target can move in any fashion, as long as it doesn't force MM himself to move too much.

 

Survival

A bit worse in terms of single target than MM, on par with BM. Probably best AOE, but the the targets need to survive for a bit for Serpent Sting to do some damage, as Survival seems to have lost the instant damage component from the Serpent Sting, and Multishot's itself damage is meh.

 

Small penalties for switching targets - need to reapply the DoTs. Wasting a large portion of Black Arrow's duration on a killed target is a DPS loss, so we would want to make use BA on a target that's likely to survive through the whole duration. 

 

Some people could consider killing a target with a first tick of Explosive Shot a waste of damage, but is it really? It's not that different from 3/4 overkill with a Chimaera. 

 

No pet, so it doesn't make a difference whether you're switching target to another one, standing right next to it, or a remote target, 70m away from your current target. 

 

No bonuses to switching targets. No DPS cooldowns of any sort, which can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. During a 80% to 35%, SV's DPS is probably higher than MM's, especially outside of RF.

 

The rotation is exactly the same regardless of the target's health, so SV should be relatively easy to play, which can be good for a hunter who wants to focus more on proper execution of fight mechanics rather than own rotation.

 

Lots of on-demand instant damage in form of Arcane Shots, and a bit of a "free" DoT component to it, which is convenient so you don't have to manually finish off a target with 1455 HP left. 

 

 

Movement: the most mobile hunter spec - both the hunter and his target can move in any way without any DPS penalties. 

 

Beast Mastery

Doesn't seem very attractive for anything but the sustained multi target cleave. Single target rotation has the same DPS as Survival, but a bit harder to execute properly. 

BM hunter is the melee DPS + ranged DPS package, so it should be played as both. AOE seems to be good, but it requires for targets to be stacked around your pet, which is not always possible. 

 

A penalty for switching targets - need to wait for your pet to run up to the target. Blink Strikes can help with this, but they don't completely solve the issue. 

 

No bonuses for switching targets, apart from throwing a couple of killshots in the direction of soon-to-be-dead target, but BM's killshots are not as powerful, and activate later. 

 

A strong DPS cooldown once a minute, but requires a bit of luck or preparation to get the most benefit, as we no longer have Fervor to help us out. IMHO, BMs should have access to Fervor instead of Steady Concentration. Can be useful when there's a predictable DPS burst required of you once a minute or more. 

 

Has an execution phase, but weaker than MM's. 

 

Pretty much all your damage is instant. 

 

Movement: hunter himself can move all he wants, but if the target is constantly on the move, that can be a problem, as your pet will uselessly chase it, preventing it from casting its primary attack/autoattack on cooldown. Pet himself requires a bit of management. The "assist" stance often makes a pet do stupid things, so it's probably better to keep your pet on passive, and just macro /petattack to the Kill Command - that's something you should do anyway.

 

BMs have a history of problem with unreachable / flying targets, and while the first one can usually be dealt with Blink Strikes, the second one remains an achilles heel. 

 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Iridar

[Niix 169]

http://strawpoll.me/3106820/r

 

What class should I level to 100 next?

[Atrais 38]

http://strawpoll.me/3106820/r

 

What class should I level to 100 next?

 

1) Your link goes to the results page, you need to remove the "/r"

2) Warrior, because Shield DPS

[Arkhoul 1]

Anyone else finding that Munificent Emblem of Terror is basically the best trinket <640 ilvl? Using the stat weights in the OP, Mr. Robot lists it higher than every 630 trinket including Blood Seal of Azzakel. For my hunter at least (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Arkra/simple).

 

Also, I saw it mentioned above that SimC isn't determining stat weights accurately, can anyone give me a little (basic) info about how it's getting it wrong compared to the numbers in the OP? I guess the dps results are still accurate enough though?

[Iridar 80]

Anyone else finding that Munificent Emblem of Terror is basically the best trinket <640 ilvl? Using the stat weights in the OP, Mr. Robot lists it higher than every 630 trinket including Blood Seal of Azzakel. For my hunter at least (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Arkra/simple).

 

Also, I saw it mentioned above that SimC isn't determining stat weights accurately, can anyone give me a little (basic) info about how it's getting it wrong compared to the numbers in the OP? I guess the dps results are still accurate enough though?

Mr.robot lately seems to be far from accurate, have you tried simming yourself with this trinket and other trinkets and comparing?

Though simulationcraft seems to be weird about trinkets as well, but at least it's being updated faster than mr.robot.

[Arkhoul 1]

Simming with the gear in my armory link above gives 21506.2 dps, swapping out the munificent emblem for the blood seal resulted in 21519.7 so Mr. Robot has it wrong there but that looks damn close to me. Fight length might affect things though, that was with the default 360-540s length, gonna sim again with a shorter fight and see what's what.

 

Edit: 240-360s fight length gives 22185.7 dps with the Emblem, 22183.1 dps with the Blood Seal. I think all these results are falling within the margin for error so it certainly does seem like the Emblem is punching above its weight, particularly on shorter fights.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Arkhoul

[Atrais 38]

Simming with the gear in my armory link above gives 21506.2 dps, swapping out the munificent emblem for the blood seal resulted in 21519.7 so Mr. Robot has it wrong there but that looks damn close to me. Fight length might affect things though, that was with the default 360-540s length, gonna sim again with a shorter fight and see what's what.

 

Edit: 240-360s fight length gives 22185.7 dps with the Emblem, 22183.1 dps with the Blood Seal. I think all these results are falling within the margin for error so it certainly does seem like the Emblem is punching above its weight, particularly on shorter fights.

 

Its going to come down to fight lengths, as you said. Emblem basically procs once per minute, so if a fight lasts just voer the minute marks (e.g. 3:15 fight) its going to come out as being stronger than if the fight lasted jsut short of a full minute (e.g. 3:45).  I would predict most fights in Highmaul will prob be between the 3:00-4:00 mark on Normal and Heroic, so Emblem should be doing very well until you get a 655 replacement

[z3kuda 0]

Regarding stat priorities again, I must say I'm pretty surprised that versatility is prioritized over haste and mastery. I thought that stat was meant to be the worst for DPS across all classes.

[Niix 169]

Regarding stat priorities again, I must say I'm pretty surprised that versatility is prioritized over haste and mastery. I thought that stat was meant to be the worst for DPS across all classes.

 

I can't really elaborate as to why it's better, but it's not even that much better. Mastery and haste are just generally lackluster stats for us, specifically MM now.

[Iridar 80]

I can't really elaborate as to why it's better, but it's not even that much better. Mastery and haste are just generally lackluster stats for us, specifically MM now.

Probably because mastery depends on crit and us standing immobile, while Versatility is a flat damage boost.

 

Mastery is likely to go up in value as we gain more crit. 

 

Same goes for Haste, its effect doesn't really become noticeable until we get a lot of it, enough to occasionally squeeze in another AiS or SS in between Chimaeras. 

 

Haste also has an effect on Mastery, as with more Haste we can push more AiSs during RF / Careful Aim phases. 

 

If we test point for point, Versatility will win, but if we could choose - gain 2000 versatility or 1000 haste and 1000 mastery, I'd expect the latter to win. 

[Quincypker 1]

so powershot does more DPS but its more optimal to take glaive toss? why?

[Atrais 38]

so powershot does more DPS but its more optimal to take glaive toss? why?

Not sure what your sims are saying, but on paper it doesnt when you consider the long CD

Glaive Toss: 144% of AP, instant, so 144% AP DPS on a 15-sec CD

Barrage: 960% Weapon Damage, 3 second cast, so 320% WD DPS, on a 20-sec CD

Powershot: 450% Weapon Damage, 2.2 sec cast, so 204% WD DPS, on a 45-sec CD

So in 45 seconds, I would cast 3 Glaive Tosses, 2 Barrages, or 1 Powershot, thats why Powershot falls behind

[Quincypker 1]

so is barrage better than glaive toss?

[Atrais 38]

so is barrage better than glaive toss?

 

Only on 2+ targets, but as the expansion goes on and weapons have more and more damage, it may overtake GT.  Right now both are very close on ST, but GT is much easier to fit into your rotation (instant-cast and 15 F vs. 3 sec cast and 60 F). 

[Quincypker 1]

awesome thanks

[f0nZi3 7]

So, I'm kinda curious as to what spec y'all will be running in raids this upcoming week, as in which spec for which boss.  Myself, I will likely be playing MM for all but Tectus, where I will play SV for the AoE at the end (getting all 4/8 motes down faster), but will depend on how well my guild does in quickly learning mechanics and what is expected of me (which I will learn Wed. since my guild takes tuesday off).  I don't see any fights where SV would be better than MM but Tectus, but will have to see, since MM cleave is incredibly strong and none really have consistent AoE where Sv would excel.

 

I'm going MM but gonna play BM for Tectus. I'm getting used to MM but I find the spec extremely slow and extremely boring. I don't have all the tools at my disposal like I do for BM. I just find BM more fun to play with (much) better survivability. But I can't gimp the raid or myself since MM is cranking out the DPS right now. Not being able to main BM is making me a sad Hunter though, not gonna lie. :(

[f0nZi3 7]

They buffed it recently, it hits for more lately, I have noticed.  I see a DPS increase when there are more than 2 targets. 

I read Tectus but was thinking he was a different boss, the swamp guys with the adds, I know what you are talking about now.  Still think MM would provide more DPS overall, since a significant portion of the fight involve 1-2 targets.

 

Fatboss has some Beta guides up. This one is for Tectus:

 

If it's tanked correctly I think cleave should be possible and needed and the fact that I can still hit KC while line of sighted if I have to kite the "cloud shit" behind a pillar will help a bit (IMO).

[Niix 169]

Well, my stream is live as of 3:30 PM EST. I'm fucking around on Diablo right now but my schedule for the rest of the day is going to be as follows.

1. Weekly stuff on hunter and monk.
2. Mount runs.
3. Last minute raid prep.
4. RAID!
5. Live log analysis after raid!!!!! Make sure to stick around.

[Atrais 38]

Fatboss has some Beta guides up. This one is for Tectus:

 

If it's tanked correctly I think cleave should be possible and needed and the fact that I can still hit KC while line of sighted if I have to kite the "cloud shit" behind a pillar will help a bit (IMO).

 

Cleave only happens in the last phase, the rest of the fight is 1-2 targets, so I'm def staying MM for that one.  MM does better on AoE at the moment than BM does on ST, I'd rather lag a bit in the AoE department than in ST.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Atrais

[Orthios 271]

 

Well, my stream is live as of 3:30 PM EST. I'm fucking around on Diablo right now but my schedule for the rest of the day is going to be as follows.

1. Weekly stuff on hunter and monk.
2. Mount runs.
3. Last minute raid prep.
4. RAID!
5. Live log analysis after raid!!!!! Make sure to stick around.

 

Looks like you have a similar schedule as I do, although I don't raid until tomorrow night.

[Niix 169]

Delayed til 3 PST great.