Azortharion's 6.2.2 MM Hunter Guide

[GloriousHunt 0]

^^ That fucking video man,        

[Iscott 0]

So how much is the dps difference between thrill ad LW over steady and focusing?

[Niix 169]

 

It's much easier to play with LW, and it's more straightforward. 

With pet, you will lose DPS each time you need to switch targets, or if target is on the move, or if target is out of melee range.

 

That, and Focusing Shot is harder to use, because it can't be cast on the move, because it's such a long cast that gives so much focus all at once. It's easy to overcap or delay high priority shots. 

 

On paper, Focusing Shot + Steady Focus gives better DPS than Thrill of the Hunt + Lone Wolf, but realistically it's probably only going to be usable on fights without much movement, like Butcher and Kargath, and even then it's easy to lose whatever DPS you gained, due to making mistakes in rotation, because you're not used to using FS. 

 

​

 

 

Whenever I would get asked what pet is best in BC I would always say sporebat just for the lulz, because it provided nothing. Nice to see this video shares the same thought.

[Kulia 39]

So how much is the dps difference between thrill ad LW over steady and focusing?

For my hunter personally, it's about like 700dps difference (SF+FS being the higher)

[Syncness 4]

My sims (for my char) show me a 1000DPS~ difference between SF/FS and TOTH/LW.

 

 

I agree with Iridar, whilst it's very clear on paper SF/FS brings slightly higher numbers, it is extremely clear in reality that you'll be interrupting casts to get out of mechanics which very easily makes Focusing Shot not worth it.

 

Furthermore, having pets switch on adds is also a DPS loss because of the time it takes for the pet to move. Similarly, there are times the player has to dodge mechanics when the pet could be attacking. In my judgement, I've determined LW to still be favorable overall.

 

A mix of SF/LW is also not favorable due to the excessive need to cast Cobra Shot in groups of two.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Syncness

[Boros 0]

I sort of expected a little bit bigger difference than that, but it still goes to reinforce my belief that explosive shot just isn't worth using single target, with the exceptions of filling in holes like you said. 

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Yah, I was wondering about that one as well. 

 

What do you think about LnL proc though?   If I just start a FS, and I notice LnL proc I have been moving to cancel it, and spammed ES's.

I find that using a /stopcast macro for ES helps a lot for situations like these

[Iridar 80]

I find that using a /stopcast macro for ES helps a lot for situations like these

Normally, cancelling shots is a bad idea. It's useful to have stopcasting macro on hand, but it shouldn't be used routinely. 

[Boros 0]

Normally, cancelling shots is a bad idea. It's useful to have stopcasting macro on hand, but it shouldn't be used routinely. 

Well it's mainly for PvP anyway ;)

[Iscott 0]

If I have the heroic bow from Bracken do I need to be MM and I have like 19 percent mastery buffed so could I still play MM with that much mastery?

[Minigun 1]

My sims (for my char) show me a 1000DPS~ difference between SF/FS and TOTH/LW.

 

 

I agree with Iridar, whilst it's very clear on paper SF/FS brings slightly higher numbers, it is extremely clear in reality that you'll be interrupting casts to get out of mechanics which very easily makes Focusing Shot not worth it.

 

Furthermore, having pets switch on adds is also a DPS loss because of the time it takes for the pet to move. Similarly, there are times the player has to dodge mechanics when the pet could be attacking. In my judgement, I've determined LW to still be favorable overall.

 

A mix of SF/LW is also not favorable due to the excessive need to cast Cobra Shot in groups of two.

Meh, I don't have a lot of issues using FS+SF in heroic.  Sometimes, you get screwed, but the dps difference is so large a couple hiccups over a several minute fight won't make a huge difference.

 

Next week I plan on trying FS + ToTH on the more mobile fights.  You lose about 200 dps, but you potentially have more to do during movement.   More add burst as well.

 

 

Mythic starts next week for me, so it might be a different story.  i haven't even looked into those fights as of yet.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Minigun

[Iridar 80]

Meh, I don't have a lot of issues using FS+SF in heroic.  Sometimes, you get screwed, but the dps difference is so large a couple hiccups over a several minute fight won't make a huge difference.

 

Next week I plan on trying FS + ToTH on the more mobile fights.  You lose about 200 dps, but you potentially have more to do during movement.   More add burst as well.

Really? How big of a difference? For my gear, difference between TotH - Stampede - LW (my current setup) = 27.7k DPS and SF - AMoC - FS (best simmed setup) = 28.9k DPS is, as you see, merely 1.2k DPS, less than 5%. And that's on a patchwerk fight. On a "heavy movement" fight, the SF-AMoC-FS setup starts lagging behind by the same 1.2k. 

 

Also, you will be losing DPS any time pet needs to switch targets or if the target is moving. 

 

There are some perks to using FS - much easier to find focus for Barrage when you need to AOE, and higher number of Arcane Shots cast = can act on more multidotting opportunities. 

[Minigun 1]

Really? How big of a difference? For my gear, difference between TotH - Stampede - LW (my current setup) = 27.7k DPS and SF - AMoC - FS (best simmed setup) = 28.9k DPS is, as you see, merely 1.2k DPS, less than 5%. And that's on a patchwerk fight. On a "heavy movement" fight, the SF-AMoC-FS setup starts lagging behind by the same 1.2k. 

 

Also, you will be losing DPS any time pet needs to switch targets or if the target is moving. 

 

There are some perks to using FS - much easier to find focus for Barrage when you need to AOE, and higher number of Arcane Shots cast = can act on more multidotting opportunities. 

 

How do you port the results to images that you can share?

 

Meh anyways,

 

ToTH+AMOC+Ba +FS = 28129   (No Explosive Trap)

SF+AMOC+ Ba+FS = 28312 (No ET)

SF+AMOC+ Ba+FS = 28405 (ET)

 

ToTH+Stampede+Ba+LW = 27095 (no ET)

ToTH+Stampede+Ba+LW = 27370 (ET)

 

 

I have primarily been using SF+AMOC+ Ba+FS = 28312 (No ET) However, I do use ET sometimes to fill in gaps.  Just usually not part of the primary shot priority.

 

That is nearly 1k difference, more if I slack off on explosive traps.  I think that could easily afford me a couple screwups on focusing shot.

 

 

I haven't tried to sim anything heavy movement, because I am not sure exactly what changes in the sim.  I  have doubts that it can model that accurately.  But I could certainly be wrong. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by Minigun

[Iridar 80]

 

How do you port the results to images that you can share?

You right click on the chart in simcraft and choose "copy image URL", then paste that URL into your forum post. 

That is nearly 1k difference, more if I slack off on explosive traps.  I think that could easily afford me a couple screwups on focusing shot.

 

 

I haven't tried to sim anything heavy movement, because I am not sure exactly what changes in the sim.  I  have doubts that it can model that accurately.  But I could certainly be wrong.

1k is not that much, considering how much attention it requires compared to standard TotH LW. 

"Heavy movement", I assume, forces the player to move from time to time, effectively interrupting their current cast. 

[Minigun 1]

 

 

You right click on the chart in simcraft and choose "copy image URL", then paste that URL into your forum post. 

1k is not that much, considering how much attention it requires compared to standard TotH LW. 

"Heavy movement", I assume, forces the player to move from time to time, effectively interrupting their current cast. 

 

 

I certainly thought that at first, but I don't think it's all that bad. 

 

Heroic:

Kargath:  You are basically stationary most of the time.  When you do have to move, you have plenty of time to get from one spot to another. 

 

Butcher:  Nearly completely stationary, unless you have to handle the dots, which I do.  FS can cause issues here, but I didn't have any major problems when I tried.   You have a decent sized window to move out, and back in. 

 

Tectus  A lot of time spent stationary stacked.  If you get unlucky with rocks + fire, then I could certainly see this being an issue.  On the other hand, if you don't get targeted it's ez streak.  I got unlucky on this one last week now that I think about it.  I could certainly see going LW here, but I will try ToTH + FS next week to see if that helps.

 

Twin Ogron:  If your raid positions themselves right, you can stand by a weapon and avoid all but 2 fires.  Our raid doesn't do this for whatever reason though, so this fight was a bit punishing during quakes.  But the fire is fairly slow, so you can get FS's off even during quake a lot of the time.  Rotating Fox buffs could help here I would imagine.  

 

Certainly considering ToTH+FS or LW here as well.

 

Brakenspore:  Raid basically stands in on mushrooms usually.  However, I am on flamethrower duty!  There is quite a bit of movement involved in this, but usually I am either killing moss or attacking the boss.  After I burn a shitload of moss, I don't find it absolutely necessary to clump up with the rest of the team immediately.  Stopping to cast a FS on the way back doesn't seem like a big issue.  

 

Ko'ragh:  I am the first on ball duty here.  I generally just determine where the ball will fall, disengage to get into position, and hang out in that area.  When adds come I MD to tank, and unload when they are in position.  Again, I don't find it particularly necessary for me to group back up with the raid most of the time, as the balls spawn quite frequently.

 

Imperator Mar'gok:  There are a lot of things in this fight which can be annoying.  Force Wave Knockback + Voidalker knockback are only in one phase, which helps.  It's rare that you have to handle to dot more than once or twice due to raid size.  Mines are a persistent issue, but it literally takes one second to move into the next group location.  So unless you are completely out of focus you won't lose anything.  What's more you get a warning about mines, and have about a full second to get out.  In short, movement occurs sporadically, and the distance traveled is short.  

 

Certainly considering ToTH+FS or LW here as well.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Minigun

[Iridar 80]

Brakenspore:  Raid basically stands in on mushrooms usually.  However, I am on flamethrower duty!  There is quite a bit of movement involves in this, but usually I am either killing moss or attacking the boss.  After I burn a shitload of moss, I don't find it absolutely necessary to clump up with the rest of the team immediately.  Stopping to cast a FS on the way back doesn't seem like a big issue.  

That's how I use it too. Movement on Brackenspore is certainly of low urgency, and there are many multi-dotting opportunities, so more Arcane Shots from FS + SF will  come in handy.

 

Additionally, your pet will be there attacking the boss while you burn the moss, and the boss itself doesn't move THAT much during the fight, and while you burn the moss you will be enjoying increased focus regeneration from SF, while the TotH stacks would just fall off uselessly.

 

Brackenspore is definitely one of the best bosses to use SF + FS on, better than Butcher even. I was pushing 41k DPS on this boss this week, both heroic and normal, and it's certainly not the best that could be done. 

[Niix 169]

So I unfortunately have no way of editing this guide at the moment.

[Iscott 0]

How bad is LW of a dps loss? I'm just tired of using FS lol and is barrage better single target now 

[Ulgratron 4]

If you want to use LW then use it, it's not a big loss when you take into account ocercapping focus and losing the SF buff, and on certain high movement fights it can easily outperform FS/SF .  LW/TotH is perfectly viable.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Ulgratron

[Orthios 271]

How bad is LW of a dps loss? I'm just tired of using FS lol and is barrage better single target now 

For which spec? For me, the difference between TotH/LW and SF/FS for MM is 35.  For SV the difference between SF/Crows/FS (top sim @ 26246) and TotH/Crows/LW (top LW sim @ 25661) is 685 dps.  This is using GT, 250s +20% time, elite skill, 10k iterations, patchwerk fight.

[Iscott 0]

I mean I just keep hearing that LW is terrible for Surv and I just dont see how with how many times u can lose dps with overcapping focus and pet lost dps. As well is EM viable at all?

[Orthios 271]

I mean I just keep hearing that LW is terrible for Surv and I just dont see how with how many times u can lose dps with overcapping focus and pet lost dps. As well is EM viable at all?

It takes a little while to get used to using FS, but once you do it's pretty easy to use.  I've rarely focus capped using FS now that I've gotten used to using it, but there are times where SF does fall off, but I don't worry about those times too much, keeping 100% uptime on SF isn't top priority.  As for EM, no, it is 1400 (5.5%) lower than FS in my current gear, and the gap only grows as you get more gear.  I did also (just for the heck of it) sim a high mastery build for SV thinking that maybe EM would be more viable, but it is not, and is actually lower than the build listed here.

[Iridar 80]

I mean I just keep hearing that LW is terrible for Surv and I just dont see how with how many times u can lose dps with overcapping focus and pet lost dps. As well is EM viable at all?

LW sims 5% below FS on completely stand still fights, I wouldn't call that terrible. I'd call that better than FS, because no way you can get as close to being perfect with FS as you can with LW. 

 

EM is weak, and there's barely any reason to pick them, aside from sustained multi target fights like Tectus. 

[Atrais 38]

LW sims 5% below FS on completely stand still fights, I wouldn't call that terrible. I'd call that better than FS, because no way you can get as close to being perfect with FS as you can with LW. 

 

EM is weak, and there's barely any reason to pick them, aside from sustained multi target fights like Tectus. 

 

Completely agree with Iridar here, ESPECIALLY for progression.  Progressions fights are not going to go smoothly all the time, thats just a fact of life.  LW allows us to retain the hunter's greatest asset: 100% DPS while moving.  Once you have fights on farm and everybody knows the fights, you can go back and pad the metters with FS, but I have been suggesting to all hunters I work with and help to take LW for anything progression or with PuGs.

[Iridar 80]

There's a great post on how to find out stuff like which trinket is better with simcraft here:

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/132926-wod-survival-60/page-3#entry2277700

[Iscott 0]

How much does BM scale behind SV in fights