Azortharion's 6.2.2 MM Hunter Guide

[Iridar 80]

Should I always be casting something, even if it delays Chimaera Shot by a second? I often find myself in the situation where everything is on cooldown and AS and/or SS/FS will slightly delay my next CS (most often by 0.5-1 seconds). Is there an acceptable length of downtime so as to cast CS asap?

I still use the Frostheim's general guideline with some dust on it: if the delay is almost a whole second, cast something even if it delays CS. If the delay is less than half a second, than just wait for CS to come off cooldown. 

 

I will play around with it in simcraft later, see what I get. 

Edited January 10, 2015 by Iridar

[Kalibos 1]

I still use the Frostheim's general guideline with some dust on it: if the delay is almost a whole second, cast something even if it delays CS. If the delay is less than half a second, than just wait for CS to come off cooldown. 

 

I will play around with it in simcraft later, see what I get. 

 

Thanks for the response.

[Iridar 80]

Thanks for the response.

I have simmed it, here are the results:

34433 Hunter_MM_T17H_02
34409 Hunter_MM_T17H_01
34406 Hunter_MM_T17H_03
34406 Hunter_MM_T17H
34374 Hunter_MM_T17H_04
34368 Hunter_MM_T17H_05
34350 Hunter_MM_T17H_06
34278 Hunter_MM_T17H_08
34270 Hunter_MM_T17H_07
34170 Hunter_MM_T17H_09
34123 Hunter_MM_T17H_10

I was using the default MM profile. The number near profile name is the delay, "01" stands for "don't cast any abilities if Chimaera Shot's cooldown is 0.1 or less". Similarly, "10" refers to waiting for a whole second.

 

Curiously, the 0.3 second delay has the same DPS as the simcraft default profile, which means that simcraft waits for ability to come off cooldown for 0.3 seconds by default. The 0.2 and 0.1 results can't possibly be higher than that, so it's likely just a small statistical error. 

 

So it seems that I was a bit off. You should wait if CS's cooldown is 0.3 seconds or less, and cast another ability otherwise. Either way, it's not a huge deal. Worst case scenario, you lose ~300 DPS if you wait for a whole second. With the default profile, simcraft delays CS by 0.9 seconds on average, so it's normal to delay CS to cast something else.

[Kalibos 1]

I have simmed it, here are the results:

34433 Hunter_MM_T17H_02
34409 Hunter_MM_T17H_01
34406 Hunter_MM_T17H_03
34406 Hunter_MM_T17H
34374 Hunter_MM_T17H_04
34368 Hunter_MM_T17H_05
34350 Hunter_MM_T17H_06
34278 Hunter_MM_T17H_08
34270 Hunter_MM_T17H_07
34170 Hunter_MM_T17H_09
34123 Hunter_MM_T17H_10

I was using the default MM profile. The number near profile name is the delay, "01" stands for "don't cast any abilities if Chimaera Shot's cooldown is 0.1 or less". Similarly, "10" refers to waiting for a whole second.

 

Curiously, the 0.3 second delay has the same DPS as the simcraft default profile, which means that simcraft waits for ability to come off cooldown for 0.3 seconds by default. The 0.2 and 0.1 results can't possibly be higher than that, so it's likely just a small statistical error. 

 

So it seems that I was a bit off. You should wait if CS's cooldown is 0.3 seconds or less, and cast another ability otherwise. Either way, it's not a huge deal. Worst case scenario, you lose ~300 DPS if you wait for a whole second. With the default profile, simcraft delays CS by 0.9 seconds on average, so it's normal to delay CS to cast something else.

 

Thanks a lot Iridar I very much appreciate the effort.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Kalibos

[Azortharion 60]

The guide is outdated in some places seeing as you get a lot of the guide's info by copypasting mine which has changed some recently. :/

 

Link in signature, there's a changelog so you know what to change.

 

Also you can't tell people to get stat weights by simming their own character and copypasting the results, that's gonna be just wrong so I'd probably remove that section.

[Niix 169]

The guide is outdated in some places seeing as you get a lot of the guide's info by copypasting mine which has changed some recently. :/

 

Link in signature, there's a changelog so you know what to change.

 

Also you can't tell people to get stat weights by simming their own character and copypasting the results, that's gonna be just wrong so I'd probably remove that section.

 

Thanks for the tips bud. Haven't been around recently due to a bunch of IRL issues. Likely gonna wipe the guide again and do things a lot differently since I haven't been able to devote a lot of time to this, probably gonna come up with a different format that doesn't involve constant updates.

 

Anyways, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

[DukeDukey 0]

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask a hunter pvp question, but has anyone else noticed freezing trap and glyph of explosive trap sometimes failing in a pvp setting? I've seen the trap graphic activate but it's effect doesn't go off. I don't believe this is a DR issue. Is it possible that traps can fail? Whenever this happens, this really puts a damper on cc chains in arena because hunters have to wait for the 30 second cooldown to reset.

[Orthios 271]

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask a hunter pvp question, but has anyone else noticed freezing trap and glyph of explosive trap sometimes failing in a pvp setting? I've seen the trap graphic activate but it's effect doesn't go off. I don't believe this is a DR issue. Is it possible that traps can fail? Whenever this happens, this really puts a damper on cc chains in arena because hunters have to wait for the 30 second cooldown to reset.

Freezing Trap's effect will break if there are any dots on the target or if someone hits them.  Explosive trap now leaves a dot on the target instead of a ground effect.  As for glyph of ET, that is a knockback, so I don't know how that could fail.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Orthios

[Iridar 80]

Freezing Trap's effect will break if there are any dots on the target or if someone hits them.  Explosive trap now leaves a dot on the target instead of a ground effect.  As for glyph of ET, that is a knockback, so I don't know how that could fail.

Probably due to immunities. There's lots of em, cloak of shadows for rogues, corrupted earth for DKs. Pillar of frost protects DKs from knockback, etc.

[Ulgratron 4]

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask a hunter pvp question, but has anyone else noticed freezing trap and glyph of explosive trap sometimes failing in a pvp setting? I've seen the trap graphic activate but it's effect doesn't go off. I don't believe this is a DR issue. Is it possible that traps can fail? Whenever this happens, this really puts a damper on cc chains in arena because hunters have to wait for the 30 second cooldown to reset.

 

 

Immunities or spell reflect.  There are a lot of reasons the trap won't go off depending on the classes you are up against.

 

This will also happen if an enemy is on a 3 tick DR.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Ulgratron

[Niix 169]

[Iridar 80]

I wonder if it's a multiplicative or additive increase.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Iridar

[Niix 169]

I wonder if it's a multiplicative or additive increase.

 

I'm inclined to say additive. Which wouldn't really do much.

[Niix 169]

Stat weights for Survival have been added. Take them with a grain of salt until Azor weighs in becuase I don't trust my ability to properly weight stats quite yet.

[Niix 169]

Also added the opener I believe to be correct for SV.

[Iridar 80]

Also added the opener I believe to be correct for SV.

There really is no reason to open with Crows, I'm sure it can wait a few seconds before you cast BA / ES / apply Serpent Sting. 

 

It doesn't really matter when to cast AMoC / Stampede, as long as we don't lose an additional use of that during the fight because of the delay, which shouldn't be caused by just a few seconds of delay during the opener. 

[Niix 169]

There really is no reason to open with Crows, I'm sure it can wait a few seconds before you cast BA / ES / apply Serpent Sting. 

 

It doesn't really matter when to cast AMoC / Stampede, as long as we don't lose an additional use of that during the fight because of the delay, which shouldn't be caused by just a few seconds of delay during the opener. 

 

You want your entire crows inside of your pot / coin and opener procs. I suppose you could get decent results with this.

1. Glaive Toss
2. Pre-Pot + Black Arrow
3. Explosive Shot
4. Crows
5. Arcane Shot

[Niix 169]

I pretty much just looked at what some of the top hunters are doing through WCL and it seemed to be the one that gave the best results.

[Azortharion 60]

There really is no reason to open with Crows, I'm sure it can wait a few seconds before you cast BA / ES / apply Serpent Sting. 

 

It doesn't really matter when to cast AMoC / Stampede, as long as we don't lose an additional use of that during the fight because of the delay, which shouldn't be caused by just a few seconds of delay during the opener. 

 

There is no reason not to, either.

[Iridar 80]

There is no reason not to, either.

 

Given, we're arguing minuscule amounts of DPS, but the difference between 99.98% Serpent Sting uptime and 99.99% uptime exists, while the difference between 6 AMoC casts and 6 AMoC casts - does not. 

[Azortharion 60]

Iridar, on 13 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Given, we're arguing minuscule amounts of DPS, but the difference between 99.98% Serpent Sting uptime and 99.99% uptime exists, while the difference between 6 AMoC casts and 6 AMoC casts - does not. 

 

Actually, it probably doesn't seeing as Serpent Sting does not tick every second without Arcane Shot making that difference.

 

If you delay AMOC 5 seconds and you happen to have a fight length (this is about as unreasonable of a thing to base shit on as the 'difference' between .99 and .98% uptime btw) that would otherwise line up perfectly with its cooldown, you lose 5 seconds of AMoC (which IS worth it) uptime which -is- a noticable loss of DPS.

 

 

Menawhile, this is not the case for Black Arrow which there's no point in going super early with seeing as you won't lose meaningful uptime and the spell is not worth casting if the boss is gonna die in ~5 seconds anyway so it makes little difference either way if the uptime lost is smaller than what it would be worth casting the spell hoping to achieve.

[Niix 169]

The opener for SV is really relaxed, the difference in the order of your spell casts is very very small. Talking ~100 DPS. SS doesn't tick every second, so 99.99, and 99.98 there wouldn't likely be an extra tick in there somewhere.

 

Literally if you do the exact reverse of the generally accepted shot priority, you would not see a massive change. Maybe 2 or 3 hundred DPS at most.

[Iridar 80]

Good points.

[Niix 169]

Good points.

 

Can everybody use Iridar as an example, Iridar brought up some concerns and disagreed with us. He gave his thoughts, we gave ours and his response is exactly what I expect from each and every one of you.

[Iridar 80]

Can everybody use Iridar as an example, Iridar brought up some concerns and disagreed with us. He gave his thoughts, we gave ours and his response is exactly what I expect from each and every one of you.