Season of Discovery Arms Warrior

[positiv2 952]

This thread is for comments about our Season of Discovery Arms Warrior guide.

[Guest Sincerely Horde]

This arms build is trash and was no doubt posted by a fury warrior.

[Seksi 208]

7 minutes ago, Guest Sincerely Horde said:

This arms build is trash and was no doubt posted by a fury warrior.

Can you be more specific? Talents were sorted before launch, now with early launch experience would change some things indeed, and you should find an updated build soon.

[Guest Icy Veins in a Nutsh]

lol this guide is so bad. 2/3 runes are wrong this build won't do any damage at all.

[Seksi 208]

2 hours ago, Guest Icy Veins in a Nutsh said:

lol this guide is so bad. 2/3 runes are wrong this build won't do any damage at all.

Did you try it? Its not as strong as the enrage build (which I'm in the process of updating the site with) but doesn't mean it does no damage, its actually much easier to play without screwing yourself up too 🙂

[Guest Aracy]

To give actual feedback other than 'this is bad lolz', though I do agree, there are several issues I have with this build both runes and talents wise. Starting with talents, I actually agree with it over all but I use improved Cleave and Improved Execute. Now, I can see a reason to use Enrage if you were to swap out the pants Rune Frenzied Assault for instead Consumed by Rage. But your reasoning listed is because 'we take Enrage to get Flurry' which ??? you don't have that talent build set up and actively take Mortal Strike. It would also severely cripple Arms in the talent build to just get Flurry even though we get that automatically 100% of the time with Frenzied Assault and WF is keeping us topped on rage all the time in raids.

Which leads me to the Rune selection. Overall, again, I agree with it. Mainly because our runes are pretty straight forward "this fits in square and this fits in circle" with little lee-way. However, we do get to play a bit with your type of build, even if you listed it incorrectly by accident. First looking at Pants, yes Frenzied Assault is the clear choice when you're running my type of build with execute and cleave. However, for your build it'd be better to ignore Frenzied Assault and opt into Consumed by Rage or with Wrist slot Wrecking Crew (objectively much better). However, I don't know if they actually activate Enrage as they both state "(Activating abilities which require Enrage.)" So I don't know if that means it'll activate the talent Enrage or not. I haven't tested it before but if it does than it makes for a great combo.

After that I want to look at the Chest rune and while yes Blood Frenzy is clearly meant for Arms warriors it's honestly garbage. It's only use is for people who want a more laid back rotation without worrying about an additional button. However, for an optimal build, it's just terrible because the damage is so low compared to Raging Blow it's just not worth taking. I do mean that as well by testing it both on PTR before Phase 4 and afterward, the bonuses it gives to Rend is simply not enough to over come the 100% instant damage strike from Raging Blow. Not only that, it simply cannot keep up to Raging Blow due to how low the Cooldown is from using other melee abilities (especially if we're using Quick Strike for rage dump). Comparing me and another warrior who was using Blood Frenzy vs me using Raging Blow and our gear was similiar I was doing 4k+ more damage at the end with Raging blow than his Blood Frenzy and he had more uptime than me.

Next one I want to talk about is Rampage, which while on paper sounds great woohoo it's pretty terrible in practice due to the changes. Going from a 30 sec buff you can just keep up constantly for 10% Attack Power to a 30 sec buff for 10% attack power on a 2 minute cooldown really destroyed this runes usefulness I feel. The burst of Attack Power isn't enough to get over the hurdlethat Wrecking Crew provides now with the constant Enrage it provides and 10% raw damage bonus to Mortal Strike. While I understand wanting to snapshot that 10% attack power with Blood Frenzy it still just doesn't work out because of above, which yes that warrior was also using Rampage and used it 2 times in the fight. Meaning even with 4 Rends increased in damage by Rampage he still did less than me using just Raging Blow. Making Wrecking Crew the far superior option (especially if it activates your Enrage Fury talent.)

I think if you do some more testing with Enrage and Wrecking Crew to see if they work together we might be onto a really solid build! however, with the current talents and runes choices this build is abysmal unfortunately and lacks a lot of damage that can easily be made up with the swapping of some runes. I hope this is more constructive and gets across why people are upset with this Arms talent/rune build.

 

[Guest Aracy after test]

After testing your build (with Enrage Talent) with both Wrecking Crew and Consumed by Rage, I just went outside stormwind and hit critters/bandits. I can confirm 100% that neither Wrecking Crew nor Consumed by Rage proc the talent Enrage for the 25% extra damage. Meaning that the talent Enrage is completely useless for us as a whole for us and taking it is trolling not only yourself but your guild as you're just wasting 5 talent points.

[Seksi 208]

11 hours ago, Guest Aracy after test said:

After testing your build (with Enrage Talent) with both Wrecking Crew and Consumed by Rage, I just went outside stormwind and hit critters/bandits. I can confirm 100% that neither Wrecking Crew nor Consumed by Rage proc the talent Enrage for the 25% extra damage. Meaning that the talent Enrage is completely useless for us as a whole for us and taking it is trolling not only yourself but your guild as you're just wasting 5 talent points.

Thanks for the feedback, Arms is simmed to be well below Fury once people are geared up so not much theorycrafting went into it in this phase, agree with most of your adjustments and will send an updated version of the guide soon, cheers!

PS: Just finished testing and while most of what you typed checks out, Blood Frenzy is giving out consistently higher results on the wowsims page so I'll keep that one in, as it is also very convenient to use as you pointed out, and the guide is meant for the average user, people at high percentiles of gameplay already know what they are doing 🙂

[Guest Aracy]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:39 PM, Seksi said:

Thanks for the feedback, Arms is simmed to be well below Fury once people are geared up so not much theorycrafting went into it in this phase, agree with most of your adjustments and will send an updated version of the guide soon, cheers!

PS: Just finished testing and while most of what you typed checks out, Blood Frenzy is giving out consistently higher results on the wowsims page so I'll keep that one in, as it is also very convenient to use as you pointed out, and the guide is meant for the average user, people at high percentiles of gameplay already know what they are doing 🙂

I'll have to give it another go then and try it out with Blood Frenzy during raids. I will admit that Blood Frenzy was able to perform much higher during an Onyxia encounter (since jumping helps me apply the bleed and I can just focus adds). It's an odd ability for higher end gameplay as well because like you said in sims it performs really well but in practice it does less. Might be player error on my end and I funnily enough think Blood Frenzy is a better Fury rune. I'm glad for the updates though and you gave my toxic typing a look over. It is frustrating not seeing any Arms guides out there and most just going 'why aren't you fury?' It's actually... Enraging! Hehe

[Seksi 208]

16 hours ago, Guest Aracy said:

I'll have to give it another go then and try it out with Blood Frenzy during raids. I will admit that Blood Frenzy was able to perform much higher during an Onyxia encounter (since jumping helps me apply the bleed and I can just focus adds). It's an odd ability for higher end gameplay as well because like you said in sims it performs really well but in practice it does less. Might be player error on my end and I funnily enough think Blood Frenzy is a better Fury rune. I'm glad for the updates though and you gave my toxic typing a look over. It is frustrating not seeing any Arms guides out there and most just going 'why aren't you fury?' It's actually... Enraging! Hehe

Yeah the Warrior Discord literally only says "don't play Arms, Fury better" which is disappointing!

Thanks for appreciating my efforts here 🙂 hope we'll get more Arms love in the next phase, for now we'll have to make do with what we got 😄

[Guest Aracy]

Hello again, after testing out the blood frenzy a lot more since our last discussion it's been working out to some degree. I think it's a great add and down time rune versus RB. BF Allows me to still do damage per-say on fights like Ony, Baron, and Shazz without too much risk of a downtime lose. RB needs to be used on cooldown so when it's not BF is, if albeit, pulling ahead slowly especially as I'm getting more AP. RB stuck on just weapon damage alone is it's biggest downside as I'm starting to notice, and I even have Bonereaver! With that said apparently people are finding 2h success in fury, going to try it out and I'm assuming it's the same reason BF succeeds where RB slowly falls behind, weapon damage. MS doing weapon damage + 160 stagnant damage is why it's not doing as much as BT 45% AP damage, which I hope they change up in the next phase at least just give MS a AP modifier and it would be solved instantly as being competitive with BT. That said, after the test I'm going back to Arms because 2h fury feels icky and incorrect lol.

Also, can you share a link to the warrior discord? Would love to discuss more theory crafting over there with y'all also if you're curious my toon is Tirivia - wildgrowth. I used to be Aracy - Lavalash but... well... that server is no more.

[Seksi 208]

52 minutes ago, Guest Aracy said:

Hello again, after testing out the blood frenzy a lot more since our last discussion it's been working out to some degree. I think it's a great add and down time rune versus RB. BF Allows me to still do damage per-say on fights like Ony, Baron, and Shazz without too much risk of a downtime lose. RB needs to be used on cooldown so when it's not BF is, if albeit, pulling ahead slowly especially as I'm getting more AP. RB stuck on just weapon damage alone is it's biggest downside as I'm starting to notice, and I even have Bonereaver! With that said apparently people are finding 2h success in fury, going to try it out and I'm assuming it's the same reason BF succeeds where RB slowly falls behind, weapon damage. MS doing weapon damage + 160 stagnant damage is why it's not doing as much as BT 45% AP damage, which I hope they change up in the next phase at least just give MS a AP modifier and it would be solved instantly as being competitive with BT. That said, after the test I'm going back to Arms because 2h fury feels icky and incorrect lol.

Also, can you share a link to the warrior discord? Would love to discuss more theory crafting over there with y'all also if you're curious my toon is Tirivia - wildgrowth. I used to be Aracy - Lavalash but... well... that server is no more.

https://discord.gg/RbCZJtw here you go, not too active there myself but there's always people talking about all things classic 🙂 sad to hear that your old server went away 😞 hope new one is doing well, and you do look to be having a great time so that's good! 😄 

[Guest Aracy]

Question, why not run tier set? Also for phase 5 with your BiS it's way over cap at 11% when you only need 6%. Would 8 core forged + 2 Draconic be the current best? Running a full wrath set with Nef head ring and Drake fang talisman being the 3% hit we would need from other sources? I'm also confused about the MH being BRE instead of Ash. To also go further I think it needs Ash, High generals axe, and Sulf/untamed in the top 3. In w/e order you would deem best. We also should be using hte javelin instead of some other ranged weapon. It gives us the best stats +1% crit. I'm not sure what the sims are saying but not using any tier piece and ignoring the new weapons doesn't seem to gel well over all unfortunately. Especially since BRE doesn't offer anything but the proc which Untamed Blade and Ash both supersede BRE.

[Seksi 208]

37 minutes ago, Guest Aracy said:

Question, why not run tier set? Also for phase 5 with your BiS it's way over cap at 11% when you only need 6%. Would 8 core forged + 2 Draconic be the current best? Running a full wrath set with Nef head ring and Drake fang talisman being the 3% hit we would need from other sources? I'm also confused about the MH being BRE instead of Ash. To also go further I think it needs Ash, High generals axe, and Sulf/untamed in the top 3. In w/e order you would deem best. We also should be using hte javelin instead of some other ranged weapon. It gives us the best stats +1% crit. I'm not sure what the sims are saying but not using any tier piece and ignoring the new weapons doesn't seem to gel well over all unfortunately. Especially since BRE doesn't offer anything but the proc which Untamed Blade and Ash both supersede BRE.

Was a very early draft, its just about time for a revision, check back in a few days 🙂