6.0.3 New to Subtlety - Have Questions

[Grig 0]

I've decided that since once again Subtlety is by far the highest DMG dealer out of the 3 specs and still has all the same mitigation utility... it's time to conform.

 

I was wondering if anyone had some helpful advice on how to make the transition from absurdly simple Assassination to Sub. I have all the addons any Raider would use except WeakAuras (which I will install if anyone has string setups for it).

 

Thanks in advance for the help and hope everyone's enjoying the expac!

[Carrn 284]

I just so happens that I do have WA strings for Sub, and I'll share those in another post later this evening when I'm not in the middle of cooking dinner

 

I just want to point out that all 3 specs are within 5% of one another on Single Target, effectively equal for 2 targets, and for 5+ Combat pulls decently well ahead but Sub is still relevant.

 

What this means is that you will perform a LOT better as a spec that you're used to playing and enjoy, rather than trying to milk out extra DPS in a spec that you're not as skilled at playing

[Grig 0]

I'm hoping to get used to both of them. Not dropping Assassination completely, but I like being the best I can be with my class. So it takes constant adapting. The WA strings would be awesome thanks in advance!

[lipsinch 46]

Hybrys helped me with some WA strings back then in MoP, I've developed mine over his (thanks Hybrys). Been great help so far, but I wanna see Carrn's too. Perhaps I can mix them or add something on one another to make it even more complete or improve my UI.

[Grig 0]

Well I played around with Sub last night and I have to say it's much more fun than I originally presumed. Now I've set off on working on my gear and prioritizing.

 

Here on Icy it's recommended to take Shadow Reflections over Venom rush. I see on Ask they default you to Venom Rush however. Just wanted to clarify that popping my CDs with Shadow Reflections would be more beneficial than running Venom correct?

 

One other question that I have is for AoE it seems as though I'm not fully understanding the rotation. Either that or I always come out far below our other DPS in heroics simply because I'm not as efficient as them with my rotation perhaps? I'd like to get some feedback on how other players feel and what you may know that could help my learning curve.

 

Lastly, I'm really interested in getting any kind of WA strings to at least get started with my own customization so I'm looking forward to any kind of input on that end. I'm hoping I can find something that will tell me whenever I don't have SnD up or Sanguinary Veins isn't active if possible.

 

Thanks!

[Carrn 284]

I'll have the WA strings up tonight, sorry. Had some family shit happen and wasn't around to get my post finished, but it's on the way.

 

Shadow Reflections is better over VR, yes.

 

AoE has always been pretty lame for Sub, but it's much better now. At any more than 2+ targets, your rotation should include FoK as cp builder. Maintain Rupture on 2 targets, if there's any more than like 4-5 who will be alive for the whole DoT then use CT. 

 

The biggest change is the FoK spam on any more than 2 targets, cause you get 1 cp for every target hit

[lipsinch 46]

Finally hit 100. Tho when was doing Proving Grounds, I felt way more comfortable using Venom Rush over SR. Guess I didn't learn using it yet.

 

Question: if I cast on one mob and switch to another, will the copy move too or will stick and mimic on that target?

[Carrn 284]

No, your clone doesn't transfer with you. As an example, for Assassination, it will cast its own Vendetta, and you get to double dip on that bonus damage for a while if you stay on the same target

 

VR might actually be better for Proving Grounds due to how much cleave there is and how short the fights usually are. If you're comfortable switching talents before round 8 or whenever the first Sha is, that probably works best, but I don't see a reason that you wouldn't be able to run VR for the whole time. 

 

It's functional, just doesn't perform as well as SR. Combat is really the only spec that should be taking VR on a regular basis

[Grig 0]

Yeah I don't have much input for you on Proving Grounds as I did that in Assassination. But I'd presume what Carrn is saying is exactly right. Shadow Reflections is more geared towards a boss that you will be on that one target for the entire duration, thus double dipping on skills like Vendetta, Shadow Dance, and Extra Expose Weakness debuff time (haven't checked on this one but it popped in my head correct me if I'm wrong) from your reflection. VR seems better in AoE situations like in heroics with all the trash pulls.

 

One thing I noticed while playing last night and I just want to make sure about is I'm using Glyph of Hemmorhaging. I figured it would be easier for me to learn the spec with Sanguinary being less of a problem. If I'm using this glyph is it still optimal to keep Rupture on my target? I don't feel comfortable taking it off yet just because I'm just getting used to the opener and combo point rotation to apply it initially.

[Carrn 284]

Yeah it's still a good idea to keep Rupture up. Allowing Hemo to apply SV just ensures that you won't get screwed over if Rupture falls off at any time, and used (in MoP when Subterfuge was better) to allow us to open Hemo > Ambush > Ambush and have those skills benefit from the bonus damage

 

Rupture does more damage than Evis, costs less energy, and ignores armor - so not only is it always better, but it also ignores armor when FW isn't up

[lipsinch 46]

Was about to say that - Rupture is kind of >>obrigatory<< due to how effective it is as a Finisher for Sub. I mean, superb DPS per Energy Spent AND dmg buff. Currently I'm finding WAY easier to keep up on buffs, so I don't feel like I gotta depend on Hemo Veins glyph. Thing is, I don't know how much DPS I may miss or earn depending on the opener, since everyone advises using it.

 

Think that passing on it will gimp DPS that much?

[Grig 0]

Seems like the only required glyph right now is Energy. Everything else was situational at best so I just chose to run Hemo for now. Once I'm more comfortable I'll change it to something utility but it seems like a no brainer for beginners. I just think it's weird to start my rotation with Garrote but I'll try working on it tonight.

[Carrn 284]

I don't think passing on it is really a huge issue, especially since maintaining rupture is the most important thing and you should have near 100% uptime on it, but if you don't need an essential survival glyph then you should probably take it just to make sure

I find starting out with Garrote weird too, and I'm not actually sure that it's the best way to open. I've been doing Ambush > Hemo. Garrote was never worth using in the past cause it did less damage than Hemo, especially if you use Hemo in FW

There was some talk a while ago about Hemo weaving about 4 times for every BS, but I don't know the details so I haven't tried it