[Frost] Frost Bomb vs Ice Nova

[Archimage 98]

So I've been struggling with the Frost Bomb vs Ice Nova, and from what I've seen - many others have also asked themselves which one is better.

 

So here is my opinion:

 

Quick fights: Ice Nova wins. (PvP and Leveling)

Longer fights: Frost Bomb wins. (Dungeons and Raids)

 

Here are some calculations: (SP = Spell Power)

Frost Bomb deals 120% SP to the primary target, and 75% to the rest.

Ice Nova deals 400% SP to the primary target, and 200% to the rest.

 

Based on this, you will need to generate 3~4 Fingers of Frost every 25 seconds (Ice Nova's recharge time) for Frost Bomb to be better than Ice Nova.

 

 

[Commence constructive discussion]

[Berlinia 168]

I am actually writing an extended post about this.
one of the great powers of ice Nova is it interrupts casts and channels. For big trashpacks I take Ice Nova for the Interrupt rotation, but for bosses I do Fbomb.

[Sneakyfox 0]

Its also gear dependant imo, you need a lot of multistrike to really make the ice bomb work. Like right now in my 622 gear I sometimes am only able to get ice lances from the elemental, so for me the nova which is independant from procs is by far better

[TLTeo 29]

I am actually writing an extended post about this.

one of the great powers of ice Nova is it interrupts casts and channels. For big trashpacks I take Ice Nova for the Interrupt rotation, but for bosses I do Fbomb.

 

Also when clearing dungeon trash you likely aren't 100% chain pulling, giving Ice Nova some time to regain charges and effectively shortening its cooldown. This reason alone in my opinion pushes it ahead of Frost Bomb for heroics (and maybe cm's depending on how fast you're trying to go).

 

For longer boss fights i think it'll be something like "if many adds, IN, otherwise FB".

[Berlinia 168]

Actually FB scales better with more adds!
Check Frost's comparison http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

The only real benefit to Icy Nova is that you can use it to interrupt all the adds from casting.
For bosses FB > all

[Potaetoe 1]

Actually FB scales better with more adds!

Check Frost's comparison http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

The only real benefit to Icy Nova is that you can use it to interrupt all the adds from casting.

For bosses FB > all

Your article disagrees with you.

 

For a singular target Ice Nova, Mirror Image, and Prismatic are better dps and Ice Nova, Run of Power, and Prismatic are both better than Frost Bomb, Mirror Image, and Prismatic.

 

Any boss or pull with more than 1 mob will benefit from Frost Bomb. And boss or pull with only 1  mob will benefit from Ice Nova. Per your article. (please note we are talking about a 600 dps difference. Which means absolutely nothing)

[Berlinia 168]

The article doesn't really disagree with me.
The dps gain on single target by Ice Nova is 100/20084 = 0.4% dps gain.

If you compare the relative rankings you will see that in general Frost Bomb takes off with more adds, but most bosses also do have adds.

Also as I said, the reason that IN is better than Frost Bomb (at least for challenge modes) is because of the interrupt that is tied to it. 

[MaximMazov 0]

imho FB is now very depends on gear (and its not so good)

for me, i had fights with fof procs only with elem or frozen orb

i think (i havent compared) in can provide u more foreseeble damage, than fb

after 1.5 week farming heroics and challenges -  my choice is in, because only 1 dungeon i noticed great amount of fof procs and my fb were top 3 ability over clearing time

[Dutchmagoz 30]

Actually FB scales better with more adds!

Check Frost's comparison http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

The only real benefit to Icy Nova is that you can use it to interrupt all the adds from casting.

For bosses FB > all

 

I disagree, strongly, about FB > IN for bosses.

 

In full raid gear, yea..maybe, but for heroics/CM geared people? Naah...

 

 

Fbomb doesnt start being better single target DPS than ice nova until like 660+ ilvl.

 

Also k,eep in mind, for dungeons, Ice Nova benefits a LOT from shatter, since you can pet freeze + ice nova for 70%+ crit chance on ice nova on all mobs at once. Also, fbomb sucks on adds that die fast, whereas IN is amazing.

 

Fbomb only beats IN if you're going for world rankings and are pulling 5 packs at once and you can keep fbomb up on one target for prolonged periods of time a nd spamming a lot of ice lances on it for prolonged periods of time.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Dutchmagoz

[Lachis 0]

I disagree, strongly, about FB > IN for bosses.

 

In full raid gear, yea..maybe, but for heroics/CM geared people? Naah...

 

 

Fbomb doesnt start being better single target DPS than ice nova until like 660+ ilvl.

 

Also k,eep in mind, for dungeons, Ice Nova benefits a LOT from shatter, since you can pet freeze + ice nova for 70%+ crit chance on ice nova on all mobs at once. Also, fbomb sucks on adds that die fast, whereas IN is amazing.

 

Fbomb only beats IN if you're going for world rankings and are pulling 5 packs at once and you can keep fbomb up on one target for prolonged periods of time a nd spamming a lot of ice lances on it for prolonged periods of time.

 

 

Did your test include Prismatic Crystal? 

[synkronized 1]

The article doesn't really disagree with me.

The dps gain on single target by Ice Nova is 100/20084 = 0.4% dps gain.

If you compare the relative rankings you will see that in general Frost Bomb takes off with more adds, but most bosses also do have adds.

Also as I said, the reason that IN is better than Frost Bomb (at least for challenge modes) is because of the interrupt that is tied to it. 

Aside from raw damage numbers I feel Ice Nova's better for another reason.  It's upfront, instant damage.  With Frost Bomb you have a cast to worry about that coincides with maximizing uptime.  You also need the target to live the full duration and in a lot of add fights those targets may not live long enough to make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb.

 

2 charges if Ice Nova, instant cast + no dot simply lends itself better to more practical fights outside of Patchwerk style bosses.

Edited November 26, 2014 by synkronized

[Oltier 471]

Aside from raw damage numbers I feel Ice Nova's better for another reason.  It's upfront, instant damage.  With Frost Bomb you have a cast to worry about that coincides with maximizing uptime.  You also need the target to live the full duration and in a lot of add fights those targets may not live long enough to make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb.

 

2 charges if Ice Nova, instant cast + no dot simply lends itself better to more practical fights outside of Patchwerk style bosses.

I'm not sure what you mean by "maximizing uptime" and "make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb" ^^ If you used FoF Ice Lances on a mob with Frost Bomb up, then Frost bomb was effective, no matter how many adds were present.

[Berlinia 168]

Frostbomb deserves its cast if more or equal than 2x FoF IL hit it on single target

[synkronized 1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "maximizing uptime" and "make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb" ^^ If you used FoF Ice Lances on a mob with Frost Bomb up, then Frost bomb was effective, no matter how many adds were present.

My bad I was going off of old assumptions.  I just noticed 6.0's Frost Bomb has no dot component to it.  I knew about the Ice Lance interaction but assumed that worked alongside Dot damage.

Edited December 2, 2014 by synkronized

[Soffic 1]

Ice Nova is a bit confusing for me, how is the best way to use it for a single boss fight?

 

Do you burn all 3 charges at once, or two at a time etc?

 

[Oltier 471]

Ice Nova is a bit confusing for me, how is the best way to use it for a single boss fight?

 

Do you burn all 3 charges at once, or two at a time etc?

First of all, there are 2 charges at once.

 

And the answer is: it depends... :) Try giving advices in an interactive way! Can you guess these factors? :D

[Soffic 1]

I dont know why i said 3 charges, i meant 2.

So do I burn both charges ASAP and use 1 charge off cooldown? or do i save up both charges, i know this may be somewhat situational but lets take the Butcher fight for example.

Try giving advices in an interactive way! Can you guess these factors?

this makes no sense btw

[Oltier 471]

I dont know why i said 3 charges, i meant 2.

So do I burn both charges ASAP and use 1 charge off cooldown? or do i save up both charges, i know this may be somewhat situational but lets take the Butcher fight for example.

this makes no sense btw

Oh come on, don't be too harsh. I'm a Hungarian. Hungarians can't speak English....

 

What you have to understand is: As long as you used up at least one charge, there is no wasted Ice Nova.

The question is: Do you suspect, there will be adds soon, which can be hit by Ice Nova potentially?

Do you need high burst damage soon?

Do you have anything better to cast? (PC, FO etc.)

 

If either answers to these questions is yes, then one. Or none, if it's gonna happen in like 5 seconds.

Otherwise, just use both whenever you have nothing better to cast.

[Soffic 1]

It would seem all the cool kids are running with Ice Nova, all the top logs and the the streams I have seen from Midwinter and Method have the mages using Ice Nova.

 

The one thing that confuses me is "A primary enemy target will take 100% increase damage" does that mean If i cast frost bolt on the boss the frost bolt will do 100% more damage if they are effected by ice nova? or is it the actual damage from Ice Nova that the damage is increased by 100%?

 

and lets take butcher for example, does this mean just burn your 2 x charges and burn a charge off every cooldown?

[Diakos 1]

It would seem all the cool kids are running with Ice Nova, all the top logs and the the streams I have seen from Midwinter and Method have the mages using Ice Nova.

 

The one thing that confuses me is "A primary enemy target will take 100% increase damage" does that mean If i cast frost bolt on the boss the frost bolt will do 100% more damage if they are effected by ice nova? or is it the actual damage from Ice Nova that the damage is increased by 100%?

 

and lets take butcher for example, does this mean just burn your 2 x charges and burn a charge off every cooldown?

 

 

 

It's just Ice Nova's damage that's doubled on the Target.

 

On single target it's pretty much just burn, though it does have a animation interrupt effect you can use, also being instant it can be nice to have something to mash on the move that doesn't require a proc.