Resto Healing in WoD

[Normia 2]

Hellou again, been little bit silent for few days, we downed imperator, but my healing sucked too much so was embarrased to link them. But well we did full hc clear tonight and downed mythic kargath, which i found intrestingly not that hard fight, but requires 5 healers in my opinion. 

 

Also iwe really didnt switch lvl 100 talent today, just dont find any actual fights that i could keep my mana up with it. So not bothering for it, also CBT serves better when ur oom. Which i find im still ewery fight end!

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8rcZdN9J6H1Vb2Xm#type=healing

 

Theres logs. Hope they help some one, when having troubles healing hc.

[Steampunk 0]

Hi everyone, new user here with a question about gear.

 

I am only at ilevel 639 right now, and about to make my first trip into Highmaul normal.  I am trying to get the best gear I can, and sometimes in a heroic I'll get an ilevel 636 that is a slight upgrade to a different 630 piece I already have.  In the case of these minor upgrades, if my 630 piece has good secondary stats, say Mastery and Haste, and the new 636 has worse (crit and versatility) is it worth upgrading for the slight Int boost?

 

Hope that made sense, thanks! :)

[Boreall 2]

I'm overall... confused by this thread to be totally honest.

 

I have never taken elemental blast, yet  I've always had strong mana. 

 

I don't have logs for everything but these are the ones from last night, was learning a lot of new fights for me and I've got it set to overall data for the three bosses we killed 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HYx4p8a9gdNnjWr2#boss=-2&wipes=2

 

I love CBT. I really hated it at first but it's grown on me so much with totemic persistence. It's not neccesarily a "Hurry charge it up!" As much as it's a fire and forget. It's easier to get usage out of it then high tide, which I probably wont use much until a higher item level.

 

I also use glyph of riptide and i've found it completely invaluable so far. If not for the healing but for the 100% possible uptide on tidal waves without casting a chain heal. That's the biggest thing I've found for successful restoration healing right now is making sure you're not casting a healing wave or a healing surge without Tidal Waves attached to it.

 

But as far as mana (Which is what I see is a large discussion in this thread) I just use a mana potion every fight and the only fight that my mana is a problem is Heroic Butcher. If you look through my logs any fight that wasn't brand new for me I typically end as top healing, even before the 4% buff.

[Boreall 2]

Hi everyone, new user here with a question about gear.

 

I am only at ilevel 639 right now, and about to make my first trip into Highmaul normal.  I am trying to get the best gear I can, and sometimes in a heroic I'll get an ilevel 636 that is a slight upgrade to a different 630 piece I already have.  In the case of these minor upgrades, if my 630 piece has good secondary stats, say Mastery and Haste, and the new 636 has worse (crit and versatility) is it worth upgrading for the slight Int boost?

 

Hope that made sense, thanks!

 

In my personal opinion, no it's not worth the short item level increase. Especially since you're already geared enough to do Highmaul normal. It's more important to have stats of Value to you (I.E. mastery) instead of losing a large chunk if it for some Crit/Vers. The same is also true of pieces with sockets vs pieces without. Often times the piece with a socket may still provide a better overall value

[fluttershyxd 3]

hey again, been healing normal today to get us healers + some dpses more geared for mythic (1 down that i was sitting out on) and progressed twins mythic today aswell.
anyways, i had some questions regarding butcher no matter what difficulity, tried some different talents but i dunno what im doing wrong.. anyways, here is a log from our normalkill today, (not really worth mention but i got the lowest ilvl of all our healers)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9djFKy1M2zbWQhNv#fight=15&type=healing&source=36

[Pandacho 286]

hey again, been healing normal today to get us healers + some dpses more geared for mythic (1 down that i was sitting out on) and progressed twins mythic today aswell.

anyways, i had some questions regarding butcher no matter what difficulity, tried some different talents but i dunno what im doing wrong.. anyways, here is a log from our normalkill today, (not really worth mention but i got the lowest ilvl of all our healers)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9djFKy1M2zbWQhNv#fight=15&type=healing&source=36

 

The Butcher... Well, I have to say that your raid is way overgeared for Normals. Is there any reason that you don't do HMs?

In my raid team average gear ilvl is 641 and it took us yesterday 1.5 hour to breeze through the first 6 bosses on Normal. There is nothing to heal on the Butcher Normal in your team's gear lvl - as I see, it's 652 for the yesterday's kill.

As for you specificaly, I went through your logs - there is nothing wrong there, it's just about the shamans strong side - the lower raid HP is, the better our heals are.

You killed the Butcher in 2 mins - you just had nothing to heal really. 

 

For the reference I'll post here my logs from yesterday's the Butcher HM. 3 tries, we left him 2-5% every try and did not have a kill for a very specific reason which I don't want to rise here.

But you can see the difference in logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GjZxJvCwrAqH1ftD#type=healing&boss=1706&wipes=1

 

 

My talents for the Butcher (HM) and I will stick with them for in future on this boss:

1. Nature's Guardian (I want it to be passive here for a sudden 'oh, shit' damage from a Cleave). You have a very good chance to drop to less than 30% HP i a sec on this boss

2. Windwalk totem (irrelevant)

3.Call of the Elements ( for the second HST)

4. Ancestral Swiftness (I need to cast faster), but you can take Echo of the Elements - it's more about personal preferences.

5. Rushing Stream (more passive healing)

6. Elemental Blast - definitely (we need mana refill in this fight)

7. High Tide (In my opinion it suits better this fight - constant damage on at least 6 people - I prefer Chain Heal on 6 people and without 10% diminishing.)

 

Glyphs: I wouldn't take Glyph of Riptide and Glyph of Chaining here. Would take Glyph of Healing Wave. The rest is up to you.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Pandacho

[Pandaids 2]

I like Conductivity for the Butcher....HR all fight for the most of the raid =)

[Nalesh 2]

 

5. Rushing Stream (more passive healing)

 

 

I would think about Conductivity for this fight.

The meelee camps nearly do not move and they are all stacked. 

The healing rain is really really powerful here, you should check it out.

 

But I agree with you in the other talents

[fluttershyxd 3]

oh yeah thanks for the heads up, i just had to make sure im not doing anything wrong ^^ 

To answer your question regarding why we did normal, if you look through the logs from wednesday, we killed first boss mythic then did the rest on heroic except the last boss that we killed on thursday. After that we decided to run through normal since some of our dps and some of our healers ( example me, i had 645 during butcher yesterday and got up to 651 after normal + trashfarming heroic for the cloak) to replace some of the blue items that people still had to make the mythic progression abit easier.

I do really like your feedback and i will make sure to have a look in here abit more. I had a feeling it might just had been that people didnt drop low but i just had to make sure.. I actually feel abit unsure about talents for twins mythic (we are progressing them atm and had our best try at 38 % yesterday). 

[Regal 21]

I'd be interested to see a whole bunch of logs and compare uptimes on different bosses. That could be an interesting theorycraft project for someone with more time than me...  

Please Stoove, feel free to message me with any theorycrafting ideas you have. Honestly, now that raids have been out and I've gotten sufficient experience in normal and heroic (haven't done mythic yet) I am finding myself needing answers but with none of the questions (I'll add more about this on the bottom). Just as a request though, I will probably need a bit more of an idea on exactly how to go about the theorycrafting, so as much detail as possible on how I'd go about doing that :o

But I'm willing to be the man power to help you out!

 

I assume you're referring to the change (MMOC link)?

 

It's a flat 4% buff to all our healing, which is quite nice.

^ This.... Omg this.. When did this happen? I don't know if I've noticed this because I've been rising through ilvls pretty fast. In a week I've gone from 634 to 649 and I'm sure it'll go up even more in the next few days. 

 

I've toyed a bit with Unleash Life and Unleashed Fury. My initial feeling is that using the GCD on UL is a net loss as I find myself having to follow it up with a Healing Surge often. I know the math doesn't work out that way, it should be a net gain when focusing on heal produced per mana used. I feel like I gobble a lot of mana up for the healing I get done when I UL and Surge instead of just spamming Healing Wave during that time.

I think this is a great question. and I know exactly how you feel. Compared to those Pallys, Druids, and Disc Priests, Shamans have it rough because we have to stand and cast. We lack a lot of mobility, so using a GCD seems terrible when we might not even get to finish the cast!

 

Nice post!

 

 

The maths actually does work out that way! At least, it does for UL. When you take UF, which I highly recommend, it's rotationally better to use UF on cooldown than to not use it on cooldown. Full theorycraft post on this coming just before Christmas.

^ Can't wait to see this!

 

I'm overall... confused by this thread to be totally honest.

 

I have never taken elemental blast, yet  I've always had strong mana. 

 

I don't have logs for everything but these are the ones from last night, was learning a lot of new fights for me and I've got it set to overall data for the three bosses we killed 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HYx4p8a9gdNnjWr2#boss=-2&wipes=2

 

I love CBT. I really hated it at first but it's grown on me so much with totemic persistence. It's not neccesarily a "Hurry charge it up!" As much as it's a fire and forget. It's easier to get usage out of it then high tide, which I probably wont use much until a higher item level.

 

I also use glyph of riptide and i've found it completely invaluable so far. If not for the healing but for the 100% possible uptide on tidal waves without casting a chain heal. That's the biggest thing I've found for successful restoration healing right now is making sure you're not casting a healing wave or a healing surge without Tidal Waves attached to it.

 

But as far as mana (Which is what I see is a large discussion in this thread) I just use a mana potion every fight and the only fight that my mana is a problem is Heroic Butcher. If you look through my logs any fight that wasn't brand new for me I typically end as top healing, even before the 4% buff.

I think the problem here is that spirit has been confined to only a few gear slots. Even on my heroic mace, I still can't get spirit (except for enchantment procs). So I REALLY need to aim for BiS for trinkets, cloaks, etc. I do tailoring on my shaman, and I have a cloak with a good amount of mastery, supplemented by multistrike (not great, but the real point here is mastery).

Now, do I give up mastery to re-roll until I get spirit? or do i want to keep mastery?

Stats priority is kind of odd because it depends on what your mana consumption is and how comfortable you are with it. I personally feel i need more spirit, but I don't want to give up the mastery either. 

And constantly getting mana potions is not only a drain on money, but I feel that it reflects badly on my mana management. Eventually I want to get past NEEDING mana potions to finish healing boss fights, and move to keeping them for emergency situations, or the "mistake groups" lol.

[Regal 21]

So I've been having a kind of rough time this week with raids. Maybe because it's the end of the school year with finals and everything so I've been overtired, but I still feel that I'm seeing some trends that we as Resto Shamans need to figure out how to manage. 

 

1. Kargath Bladefist. For this fight, they send one healer up to the stands during the chain pull. I always HATE doing this because of the lack of mobility we have as healers. And I can't pop spiritwalker's grace all the time (although I'm thinking about having it glyphed at all times). I always get hit by at least one bomb because I'm trying to finish up a heal and don't see it (I know, I know, bad tunnel vision on my part. But sometimes I just really feel I need to get that heal off on the tank pulling like 10 mobs). I prefer to stay on the bottom if I can (usually my team has asked me to go on top because I know the fight well enough and my heals are actually pretty good despite the constant inability to cast due to avoiding mechanics). 

 

2. Butcher. No mobility problem here. actually my heals shine through here. Most of the time, the party isn't at 100% health, so i can constantly benefit from mastery, and since I don't have to move I can keep healing. Making it way easier for everyone.

 

3. Tectus. I just hate being constantly targeted by that crystalline barrage. It is here that I really coined the term "ripfuckit". Where you just have to acknowledge that you're going to be unable to heal for the next few seconds. So I cast riptide on the tank and keep an eye on people while I move away. However, it is all the required mobility, and time that I can't heal, that keeps my mana going fine! lol. so I guess there are some benefits.

 

4. Brackenspore. I LOVE this fight. Not just because he gives us an awesome shield, but because it makes it really easy to fight through. Literally, just watch for the mushroom and keep it healed up. Not much for mobility because it doesn't take avoiding mechanics, but just running to mushrooms from time to time.

 

5. Twin ogrons. HATE this one. I always find myself getting hit by fire and sometimes dying. I know, again it's my fault for not paying attention to mechanics. I have to take my own advice and try not to save everyone. this fight is relatively easy for those who can continue to perform their role, while moving. Shamans can't really do that. More Ripfuckits as I try to survive. So my healing is often quite low for this fight.

 

6. Ko'ragh. For some reason, every group I've been in has had trouble with this guy. I find that if people don't ignore mechanics, this fight isn't so bad. Yea there's mobility, but there is enough time between them that I can cast enough to keep my heals up there. This is especially where I like CBT for the range and the "fire and forget" method. There are periods of stacking as well for the HR efficiency with CBT.

 

7. Imperator. So, I've done 6/7 normal, and 5/7 heroic. Tbh, I didn't know the imperator fight well enough going through normal. and I'm hesitant on going for the last two bosses since they don't really have loot I want (I should definitely get that trinket from Imperator though for spirit so I'm going back in!). With a good strategy though, this fight didn't seem too hard to heal on normal.  Move, cast, move cast. 

 

Overall though, since many of the HM fights require mobility (which I agree, make them way more fun! and challenging) I feel that we shamans are really being given the short end of the straw. We don't really have much for mobility, or dmg reduction for the tanks. 

 

Disc Priests: PW:S, Penance (glyphed), atonement, pain suppression

Holy Pally: beacons, eternal flame/sacred shield, holy shock, LoH/hand of ...(you name it)

Resto Druid: Rejuvenation/Germination, Wild Growth, Regrowth (instant in tree form, but regardless a strong heal), lifebloom, nature's swiftness(that can have it's c/d lowered with glyph), swiftmend, mushroom, 

Shaman: Earth Shield (Does this really count for anything? it really only helps with the 20% healing buff), Spiritwalker's Grace, HST/HTT (and with the nerf to HST, that's really not as effective anymore).

 

Not to mention, the removal of smart heals, which played a large role in shaman heals.

And the remove of Ancestral Vigor (is that what it was called?), that increased our heal target's health %. 

Oh! And let's not forget that the Earthliving HoT is gone :(

 

I know I sound like I'm gripping, but I am! I'm trying to learn to cope with the new demands of raid-healing, but it seems to be most difficult for Shamans. 

If you have anything to comment, or have suggestions for being more effective in these fights instead of just watching the ground to make sure you don't step in stuff, please let me know!

[Pandacho 286]

I would think about Conductivity for this fight.

The meelee camps nearly do not move and they are all stacked. 

The healing rain is really really powerful here, you should check it out.

I tried Conductivity twice on this boss. It just doesn't work for me and feels like a waste of a talent. Don't take me wrong - it's a good talent and you can definitely use it! It's just my personal preference to use something else.

We can take another look into the logs (mine and Fluttershyxd's) for Healing Rain line in Butcher's fight (Normal).

Pandacho (Rushing Streams talent)

Fluttershyxd (Conductivity talent)

 

Both of us have HR on the second place after CH.

Pandacho: 9 casts, 2.109 average, 1.06KK Healing Done, 29.5% Overheal

Fluttershyxd: 9 casts, 1.713 average, 781K Healing Done, 32.8% Overheal

 

If I remember it right, in MoP you could buff Healing Rain with UL, so with Conductivity you could have buffed HR full time. It was removed in WoD though (UL buff of HR) and the Butcher is not a fight with spell cast interrupts. So... I tried and didn't see any advantage in this talent for myself. But once more - it's my personal play style, nothing more.

[Pandacho 286]

So I've been having a kind of rough time this week with raids. Maybe because it's the end of the school year with finals and everything so I've been overtired, but I still feel that I'm seeing some trends that we as Resto Shamans need to figure out how to manage.

1. Kargath Bladefist. For this fight, they send one healer up to the stands during the chain pull. I always HATE doing this because of the lack of mobility we have as healers. And I can't pop spiritwalker's grace all the time (although I'm thinking about having it glyphed at all times). I always get hit by at least one bomb because I'm trying to finish up a heal and don't see it (I know, I know, bad tunnel vision on my part. But sometimes I just really feel I need to get that heal off on the tank pulling like 10 mobs). I prefer to stay on the bottom if I can (usually my team has asked me to go on top because I know the fight well enough and my heals are actually pretty good despite the constant inability to cast due to avoiding mechanics).

2. Butcher. No mobility problem here. actually my heals shine through here. Most of the time, the party isn't at 100% health, so i can constantly benefit from mastery, and since I don't have to move I can keep healing. Making it way easier for everyone.

3. Tectus. I just hate being constantly targeted by that crystalline barrage. It is here that I really coined the term "ripfuckit". Where you just have to acknowledge that you're going to be unable to heal for the next few seconds. So I cast riptide on the tank and keep an eye on people while I move away. However, it is all the required mobility, and time that I can't heal, that keeps my mana going fine! lol. so I guess there are some benefits.

4. Brackenspore. I LOVE this fight. Not just because he gives us an awesome shield, but because it makes it really easy to fight through. Literally, just watch for the mushroom and keep it healed up. Not much for mobility because it doesn't take avoiding mechanics, but just running to mushrooms from time to time.

5. Twin ogrons. HATE this one. I always find myself getting hit by fire and sometimes dying. I know, again it's my fault for not paying attention to mechanics. I have to take my own advice and try not to save everyone. this fight is relatively easy for those who can continue to perform their role, while moving. Shamans can't really do that. More Ripfuckits as I try to survive. So my healing is often quite low for this fight.

6. Ko'ragh. For some reason, every group I've been in has had trouble with this guy. I find that if people don't ignore mechanics, this fight isn't so bad. Yea there's mobility, but there is enough time between them that I can cast enough to keep my heals up there. This is especially where I like CBT for the range and the "fire and forget" method. There are periods of stacking as well for the HR efficiency with CBT.

7. Imperator. So, I've done 6/7 normal, and 5/7 heroic. Tbh, I didn't know the imperator fight well enough going through normal. and I'm hesitant on going for the last two bosses since they don't really have loot I want (I should definitely get that trinket from Imperator though for spirit so I'm going back in!). With a good strategy though, this fight didn't seem too hard to heal on normal.  Move, cast, move cast.

Overall though, since many of the HM fights require mobility (which I agree, make them way more fun! and challenging) I feel that we shamans are really being given the short end of the straw. We don't really have much for mobility, or dmg reduction for the tanks.

Disc Priests: PW:S, Penance (glyphed), atonement, pain suppression

Holy Pally: beacons, eternal flame/sacred shield, holy shock, LoH/hand of ...(you name it)

Resto Druid: Rejuvenation/Germination, Wild Growth, Regrowth (instant in tree form, but regardless a strong heal), lifebloom, nature's swiftness(that can have it's c/d lowered with glyph), swiftmend, mushroom,

Shaman: Earth Shield (Does this really count for anything? it really only helps with the 20% healing buff), Spiritwalker's Grace, HST/HTT (and with the nerf to HST, that's really not as effective anymore).

Not to mention, the removal of smart heals, which played a large role in shaman heals.

And the remove of Ancestral Vigor (is that what it was called?), that increased our heal target's health %.

Oh! And let's not forget that the Earthliving HoT is gone

 

I know I sound like I'm gripping, but I am! I'm trying to learn to cope with the new demands of raid-healing, but it seems to be most difficult for Shamans. 

If you have anything to comment, or have suggestions for being more effective in these fights instead of just watching the ground to make sure you don't step in stuff, please let me know!

Well, this post made me to think about sort of philosophy of raid healing. So it's more of a general thoughts, I don't want to say that it's something wrong with Regal's raid group specifically.

 

I personally don't see problems with shaman's healing mechanics in Highmaul. Yeah, in MoP it was more fun, but not having fun and having healing mechanic problems is not the same, imo

Yes, we need much more planning and thinking for every fight now, while we are not overgeared yet. Talent changes, glyph changes, used spell changes all the time - I know, not everyone likes this, but this is what we got from Blizz in WoD after MoP 'slacking'.

 

I think that a significant part of the problem here may be in your raid group. When you have a team that heals with you, your raid can benefit from the advantage of every healing class - you divide and chain CDs, you backup each other on tough raid mechanics. You can ask hunters for the Aspect of the Fox, mages for Amplify Magic, rogues for Smoke Bomb, ask your holy Pala to spec into Clemency or Hand of Purity, etc. Put your Paladin with two Beacons on tanks, ask Disk Priest to shield soaking team, drop Healing Rain on your range team. Every healing class has its advantages - raid can benefit from all of them, even if changing some talent affects your ranking numbers.

 

But if you heal not as a team but as a group of solo strangers, where everyone just wants to top the logs, then... Well, raids are not built for solo playing. And if it happens, then instead of benefiting from the advantages of every class, we have a weird situation of high numbers and dead raid.

 

Communication and team play - this is what the raids are about, imo 

[Pandaids 2]

I know topping metter isnt eerything, but Disc Priests are really OP?

 

A low ilevel Disc topped every fight even with me poping CDs often and hitting buttons as good as possible.

[Starrfyre 7]

Priests in general are quite powerful at the moment but that's to be expected. I noticed fluctuations in my healing over the past week. Of course, there are those fights where RSham's will shine, however, my healing seemed awfully low. I decided to monitor my overhealing for an entire raid and I noticed that I was overhealing waaaay too much. I've now limited myself to healing people only when they need it. I know this is common sense but its easy to fall into that trap of healing for the sake of it. In the end, my mastery was incredibly grateful for this and as a result, my healing increased ever so slightly. An added bonus is that my mana is much more easily managed!

 

Our raid healing isn't the best at the moment, but I'm finding that we can be quite decent tank healers. So, its not all doom and gloom! For those of you that are Draenei's, Gift of the Naaru isn't that bad!

[Cantankerous 0]

Hello all, I have just started healing on my resto again for the first time since pvp season 9. This thread has been incredibly helpful and in-depth. The shaman is my alt but I am having blast in 5-man heroics, so much utility and things to do prevent damage I am loving the dynamic play style and control you have in the 5-mans. Anyway I just thought I would throw my hat in the ring and credit you all on the information provided.

 

Regards Ayahuasca.

[Stoove 347]

One interesting observation our raid has made is that it's actually usually good to drop a healer (down to 5 on ~23 players) because our healers are just racing each other for heals rather than pushing useful healing. We know that Shaman perform particularly poorly when there are too many healers, so just watch out for this  :)

[fluttershyxd 3]

Tho i need to say, i spoke to my gm yesterday ( healer and discpriest) and it seems like he wants me in on most progression on mythic.. which made me really happy! it seems like monks are pretty good aswell.. and restodruids obv, except our is complaining about mana ^^

[Pandaids 2]

Priests in general are quite powerful at the moment but that's to be expected. I noticed fluctuations in my healing over the past week. Of course, there are those fights where RSham's will shine, however, my healing seemed awfully low. I decided to monitor my overhealing for an entire raid and I noticed that I was overhealing waaaay too much. I've now limited myself to healing people only when they need it. I know this is common sense but its easy to fall into that trap of healing for the sake of it. In the end, my mastery was incredibly grateful for this and as a result, my healing increased ever so slightly. An added bonus is that my mana is much more easily managed!

 

Our raid healing isn't the best at the moment, but I'm finding that we can be quite decent tank healers. So, its not all doom and gloom! For those of you that are Draenei's, Gift of the Naaru isn't that bad!

hmmm...I'll try it, thanks for the feedback.

 

Any specific spell usage? Because I'm mostly spamming Healing Wave, keeping Riptide on 2-3 people, HST on CD and Chain Heal when theres a group of people to be healed.

 

Advices??

[Cantdoit 9]

I'm a big fan of Totemic Projection for a reason I haven't seen most people listing. For my group 4/7H 25 man most of the time the ranged and healers aren't stacked with melee, I find it really useful to be able to drop Spirit link on the ranged group, to even out our health and then quickly teleport the totem over to melee.

 

I run Stonebulwark because most BIG damage is avoidable, might consider Astral Shift depending on Mythic encounters or for phase 2 arcane wrath on imperator.

I go with High Tide on pretty much every fight, CBT for me seems difficult to get the burst of healing when you want it, might just be an L2P issue. The other thing I don't see many shamans mentioning is that Echo can also be used to have multiple UE's, it doesn't need to be saved for riptide spamming, I have found this particularly useful when used in conjunction with the boosted UE. Pretty much only go with Conductivity on fights with very little or predictable movement.

[Stoove 347]

A note on Projection vs Persistence:

 

Persistence has uses outside of Cloudburst Totem! I found it really useful to have Windwalk Totem down on Expel Frost on Ko'ragh while also putting down Spirit Link Totem for the damage reduction and health redistribution.

 

Projection is a damn cool talent though!

[Cantdoit 9]

One thing I'd really like to see for CBT in the future would be a Major Glyph to turn the burst into a HoT. That would really cut down on the massive amounts of overhealing that you tend to get with CBT in its current state.

[Dofri 4]

The only case where you get overhealing from CBT is when there is nothing to heal in which case any heal (healing stream,tide,rain,riptide included) will do massive overheal. Furthermore this means that you are likely in content that is not challenging or you have to many healer and because of that overhealing will not matter.

 

I for one would rather see the raw power of this talent somehow increased as I feel it just wont compete with high tide on challenging content. The only fight in current raid tier where I would just straight out recommend taking it over over high tide is kargath because there are very few or no cases where you actually need the power of high tide.

[Cantdoit 9]

It's actually pretty easy to overheal with CBT, sure the healing you're doing powering it up you can have as effective healing, but if everyone is topped off 15 seconds later (happens in my group with 2 druids more often then you'd think) then the actual CBT heal can be wasted. Sure you can end it early with HST to get the burst exactly when you want it but for me at least it seems more trouble than it's worth.

[Stoove 347]

I don't know how many times I've said something to this effect already this expansion, but I'll say it at least once more. In my opinion, if you're overhealing with CBT you're not using it in the appropriate context or you're overthinking your usage of the spell. It feels like people are all too ready to conflate their usage of CBT with CBT's optimal behaviour, at which point the discussion simply becomes "well I think...", which is not helpful.

 

I'm not actually saying that CBT is optimal in all situations, or that you should usually be taking it over High Tide, just that discussing CBT's failure states isn't helpful when playing CBT appropriately avoids those failure states (such as with overhealing).