Resto Healing in WoD

[Starrfyre 7]

I've popped CBT in my usual totem rotation. So as soon as HST has finished, I use CBT and so on. This may not be the best way of using it but it seems to be working well so far on HC. The best thing about it in my opinion is the mana efficiency. I tried using HT but I just couldn't get into it. Blanketing injured people with Riptide and Chain Healing just didn't feel right. I still reckon that it will be more useful when we get our 4 set bonus.

[Stoove 347]

I've popped CBT in my usual totem rotation. So as soon as HST has finished, I use CBT and so on. This may not be the best way of using it but it seems to be working well so far on HC. The best thing about it in my opinion is the mana efficiency. I tried using HT but I just couldn't get into it. Blanketing injured people with Riptide and Chain Healing just didn't feel right. I still reckon that it will be more useful when we get our 4 set bonus.

 

To be fair, the set bonuses this tier look insane.

[Cantdoit 9]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-64uvw5h0cm10sm1n/sum/healingDone/

I'd be more interested in hearing unique ways of getting the most bang for your buck out of CBT. This log was from last night heroic twins chain heal was my top heal at 23.6% and iirc the fight ended with me around 65% mana.

[Cantdoit 9]

sorry linked the wrong fight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zcm2o1xwg7y3o09k/sum/healingDone/?s=781&e=1262chain heal at 21% on twins

Edited December 16, 2014 by Cantdoit

[Starrfyre 7]

Insane good? Or insane bad? haha

[Cantdoit 9]

with the 4 set, chain heal essentially doesn't have a mana cost. so it's very good.

[Mazukon 5]

I'm slightly concerned about the set bonus design this tier. Both of them encourage us to be casting Chain Heal. The 2-piece has a chance to proc an extra chain heal when you cast one, and the 4 piece can proc a 75% mana reduction on the next chain heal when you gain tidal waves. Both seem to favor spamming chain heals to get the most value out of them which makes healing less interesting if we are spamming chain heal more often. It takes some of the skill out of proper spell selection. Chain heal should only be used if there are 3+ targets that need healing in range of each other, but if we get a 75% mana reduction proc, it will probably be used even in single target healing which is one of the things the Devs said they wanted to avoid in WoD.

[Boreall 2]

Stoove, Regal, Vixsin if you're reading this... I'm struggling pretty bad right now with my choice of talents!

 

I'm going to rescind my previous statement about CBT. As I used it as "Fire and Forget" which was totally easy, in many fights it either barely outhealed, or was outhealed by Chain heal. And this was just my earlier kills. I'm going to have to switch to high tide, which brings about all kinds of problems for me.

 

Glyph of Chaining, Glyph of Riptide, Unleashed Fury, Primal Elementalist, Echo of the Elements, Ancestral Swiftness;

All of these have varying uses and viability, but to what extent, and do we reach a "best" combination?

 

For me right now my biggest concern is Unleashed Fury which didn't interact nearly as much as I'd like with Chain heal, and Echo of the Elements which suddenly uses a lot of viability for me since I'm considering dropping Unleashed Fury. Glyph of Riptide has still proved invaluable to the point of not considering removing it. It means I can maintain a 100% uptime on Tidal Waves efficiently, as much as my skill allows me to.

 

How do you guys feel about Glyph of Chaining? If I don't use it, I'd most likely stick with Glyph of Healing Wave.

And have you guys seen much use for Unleashed Fury if you're not using CBT?

Same question goes for EotE

[Dofri 4]

Since the majority of the discussion here has been about CBT I would like to start the discussion a bit more on high tide since I feel that that will be the talent of choice on most fights at least if there wont be major changes.

So, High tide gives the chain heal a passive and an "active" buff.

The passive buff is pretty straight forward. Each jump from chain heal no longer loses power with each jump. The comparison looks something like this

                 Target    Jump1    Jump2    Jump3
w/o Tide    150%    90%      80%          70%
w/ Tide      150%    100%    100%       100%

This means that if a basic 100% hit from chain heal heals for x (where x is spellpower*coefficient) ammount of damage the difference is:

w/o Tide:     x(1.5 + 0.9 + 0.8 + 0.7) = 3.9x
w/ Tide:    x(1.5 + 1*3) = 4.5X

So the passive buff already gives a decent buff to the chain heal. This however is perhaps the less interesting part and definatly the part that we need to worry less about. The "active" part of high tide is that chain heal can potentially get 2 additional jumps on targets with riptide. That means that the maximum power from that chain heal (not counting ES or Riptide bonuses) is:

x(1.5+5*1) = 6.5x

This is obviusly a huge buff over the origianl chain heal. However it isnt all that easy to get that maximum heal. To explain why I need to explain how the targeting actually works.

1) You cast chain heal on a target
2) Chain heal now chooses 3 injured targets and each may or may not have riptide
3) It chooses 2 injured targets with riptide that has NOT ALREADY been chosen.

This means that having 2-3 riptides may be enough but it is unlikely to be enough. 1 example:

Imagine that you have a raid of whatever size and all of the raid members are injured. This is the best case scenario for using chain heal.

In this case you would need 6 active riptides to be CERTAIN that you get the maximum ammount from high tide. 1 riptide for the original target to get 25% bonus to the cast. and then 1 for each target. Any less and you have to either sacrifice the 25% bonus or risk that the autopick of the chain heal chooses a target that has riptide and therefore you wont get the extra target.

What is more is that this is the best case scenario. It most certanly isnt a given that all your riptide targets are injured and therefore to increase the chances of getting most out the chain heal a few more riptides are likely needed.

This effectively means that you will NEED the glyph of riptide for maximum gain from high tide. This limits the usefulness of echo quite a bit and therefor it is likely best to take AS instead. Furthermore since the mana requirements for this type of play are quite huge you will likely need Elemental blast to get the most out of it as well as choosing good regen trinkets.

The other option here is to NOT use glyph of riptide and then take echo of elements to try to spread more riptides arround. This may or may not be better depending on fights and luck. Obviously this makes your changes of getting 6 targets from chain heals less than the other build BUT you get a whole lot more healing from each cast of riptide and free up a lot of GCD's for other casts.

Using glyph of chain heal with either build is probably not a good idea in MOST cases. However, if it is a hugely spread fight and/or you have small raid size then taking it may be necessary.



I personally have been doing almost only Highmaul normal but i have had pretty good results so far. For those interested in some numbers with this setup
My default setup for higmaul is:
 - High tide
 - Elemental Blast
 - Rushing streams
 - Ancestral swiftness
 - Glyph of riptide

(Note: I did use CBT on kargath hc!)
Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6DAzq1rWCcgfNhLG#type=healing&boss=-2

I do not have a lot of mana problems with this setup and rather aggresive use of chain heal. The only fights where i currently run out of mana are last 2 bosses but my guild hasnt really gotten the hang of them yet.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Dofri

[Regal 21]

Well, this post made me to think about sort of philosophy of raid healing. So it's more of a general thoughts, I don't want to say that it's something wrong with Regal's raid group specifically.

 

I personally don't see problems with shaman's healing mechanics in Highmaul. Yeah, in MoP it was more fun, but not having fun and having healing mechanic problems is not the same, imo

Yes, we need much more planning and thinking for every fight now, while we are not overgeared yet. Talent changes, glyph changes, used spell changes all the time - I know, not everyone likes this, but this is what we got from Blizz in WoD after MoP 'slacking'.

 

I think that a significant part of the problem here may be in your raid group. When you have a team that heals with you, your raid can benefit from the advantage of every healing class - you divide and chain CDs, you backup each other on tough raid mechanics. You can ask hunters for the Aspect of the Fox, mages for Amplify Magic, rogues for Smoke Bomb, ask your holy Pala to spec into Clemency or Hand of Purity, etc. Put your Paladin with two Beacons on tanks, ask Disk Priest to shield soaking team, drop Healing Rain on your range team. Every healing class has its advantages - raid can benefit from all of them, even if changing some talent affects your ranking numbers.

 

But if you heal not as a team but as a group of solo strangers, where everyone just wants to top the logs, then... Well, raids are not built for solo playing. And if it happens, then instead of benefiting from the advantages of every class, we have a weird situation of high numbers and dead raid.

 

Communication and team play - this is what the raids are about, imo 

Thank you for the advice Pandacho. Since I started this thread, I have left my raiding guild because they were doing terribly. I've been doing pugs mostly since then so we definitely are all competing against each other. 

I tried heroic butcher today. The highest I saw my meters was 40.8k (yea, I was definitely top with that), but I was averaging around 35k. I recently got Winged Hourglass for a trinket and it has helped my mana SO MUCH. I did have to use mana pots at the end of every attempt, but that fight gets really healing intensive at the end.

Honestly though, I'm looking at the predicted best in slot (according to Ask Mr Robot) and the blackrock gear looks like it's going to be so much nicer for us. Not just in terms of the set bonuses, but all the other pieces too will fit our stat priority much better while having a higher ilvl. I was very close to giving up Resto healing, but now I think I'll just dabble in other classes until Shamans aren't so disadvantaged. 

 

To that effect though, I'd like to share something:

I think Pandacho had an excellent point that everyone should be aware of. However, it extends beyond just cooperating during a boss fight. Each boss fight in Highmaul seems to be tailored to different healers. For example, I can almost always safely top the butcher fight, with another shaman close behind. That's because it's a high damage fight where we are constantly healing and making use of our mastery and high burst heals. 

The brackenspore fight also works well for us. I may not top as often in this fight, but I'm really good at mushroom duty. I can keep it alive much longer and easier than many of the other healers. 

But for Imperator, an extremely difficult and mobile fight, my heals are consistently low. Either no one is taking enough damage for me to heal (especially when there's a resto druid and disc priest) because the group is doing well and avoiding mechanics. Or they're taking way too much damage and if I try to keep up, I end up being unable to avoid mechanics myself. 

My biggest question is, even though Blizz has diversified and made the different healing styles more apparent, is it fair for all the classes?

One interesting observation our raid has made is that it's actually usually good to drop a healer (down to 5 on ~23 players) because our healers are just racing each other for heals rather than pushing useful healing. We know that Shaman perform particularly poorly when there are too many healers, so just watch out for this  

I think you're absolutely right and I'll mention that to my raid leader. However, I end up being the healer dropped usually, but I pull some very decent dps (for being in mostly healer gear). So maybe that's not always a bad thing?

 

Stoove, Regal, Vixsin if you're reading this... I'm struggling pretty bad right now with my choice of talents!

 

I'm going to rescind my previous statement about CBT. As I used it as "Fire and Forget" which was totally easy, in many fights it either barely outhealed, or was outhealed by Chain heal. And this was just my earlier kills. I'm going to have to switch to high tide, which brings about all kinds of problems for me.

 

Glyph of Chaining, Glyph of Riptide, Unleashed Fury, Primal Elementalist, Echo of the Elements, Ancestral Swiftness;

All of these have varying uses and viability, but to what extent, and do we reach a "best" combination?

 

For me right now my biggest concern is Unleashed Fury which didn't interact nearly as much as I'd like with Chain heal, and Echo of the Elements which suddenly uses a lot of viability for me since I'm considering dropping Unleashed Fury. Glyph of Riptide has still proved invaluable to the point of not considering removing it. It means I can maintain a 100% uptime on Tidal Waves efficiently, as much as my skill allows me to.

 

How do you guys feel about Glyph of Chaining? If I don't use it, I'd most likely stick with Glyph of Healing Wave.

And have you guys seen much use for Unleashed Fury if you're not using CBT?

Same question goes for EotE

Glyph of chaining: I like it because of the range. I use it as a default glyph because the 3second cooldown doesn't bother me and I don't have anything I'd prefer in it's place. 

Honestly, I don't feel that glyph of riptide is necessary or even all that useful unless you're running High Tide. 

I understand your concerned about 100% uptime on Tidal Waves, but you don't need 100% to be efficient. Using Glyph of Riptide to maintain 100% uptime would mean that, not only are you spamming healing wave and healing surge as much as possible, but that you're not using Chain heal (another way to upkeep tidal waves). 

I don't maintain 100% uptime on tidal waves, but I never have to cast a healing wave/surge without it. and I definitely don't struggle to get the buff. I had posted earlier about "weaving" a chain heal into a rotation. By this I mean, Riptide (proc TW), HW, HW, Chain heal (proc TW), HW, HW, Riptide (Proc TW).

Obviously it's not going to be a rigid rotation, but you get the general idea. 

Honestly though, these choices your asking about all depend on play style. I love CBT, but I also know when I'm going to use it. And if I know it's down, I'm not going to spend a bunch of mana trying to top everyone off. I'm going to keep focusing on a few targets and keep them as high as possible while doing some splash healing with HR or Chain Heal. My CBT hardly overheals unless I'm with a really good group (meaning less damage taken, better healers). 

And even my own playstyle and choices might change once Blackrock comes out. 

 

As for UF, you might want to know that UL buffs chain heal, but UF does not. UF will only buff a spell that hits only a single target. So if you're fond of spamming chain heal, you're not going to use this talent as much. I use Healing Wave a lot, so I can use UF on cooldown and get the max out of it. Sometimes I will use UL to buff chain heal, and then use the UF as a separate proc on a healing wave, but that's only occasionally. 

[Regal 21]

 

Since the majority of the discussion here has been about CBT I would like to start the discussion a bit more on high tide since I feel that that will be the talent of choice on most fights at least if there wont be major changes.

I do agree that High Tide is very hard to optimize.

However, Glyph of Riptide is not necessary to optimize it. 

I tested out HT for awhile, and EotE was plenty to get 6 jumps. It's just important to understand that this takes quite a bit of strategy to it. If you have trouble thinking on your feet and planning things out, then don't do it this way. I'm not saying I'm great at it, I found myself focusing more on how to optimize my chain heal instead of topping everyone off. And that's why I run CBT instead. But I'm just saying that I didn't see Glyph of Riptide as being necessary. 

 

Secondly, I would suggest running more heroics and testing out your current method.

I found some inefficiencies in what I was doing before I tried heroic. Gear obviously helps a lot, but I realized I had to use EB for awhile until I got comfortable with my mana. And I had to pay more attention to CBT. I make pretty good use of it in almost every fight, but I should swap to HT for certain encounters that are hard on the raid group.

You may find something similar, that your current ideas about Resto Healing are challenged when up against the Heroic encounters and higher damage.

[Pandacho 286]

This means that having 2-3 riptides may be enough but it is unlikely to be enough. 1 example:

Imagine that you have a raid of whatever size and all of the raid members are injured. This is the best case scenario for using chain heal.

In this case you would need 6 active riptides to be CERTAIN that you get the maximum ammount from high tide. 1 riptide for the original target to get 25% bonus to the cast. and then 1 for each target. Any less and you have to either sacrifice the 25% bonus or risk that the autopick of the chain heal chooses a target that has riptide and therefore you wont get the extra target.

 

Let's go through Riptide, Chain Heal and High Tide tooltips.

Riptide: Your Chain Heal spell is 25% more effective when the primary target is affected by your Riptide.

Chain Heal: Heals the friendly target, then jumps to heal the most injured nearby targets.

High Tide: Your Chain Heal also bounces to up to 2 additional targets affected by your Riptide.

 

Sorry, but as I see it, you don't need more than 3 riptided targets for full use of High Tide.

1) You riptide your primary target to get 25% buff of CH.

2) Your Chain Heal jumps to the most injured targets - no matter whether they are riptided or not.

3) After these 4 targets High Tide will look for 2 additional Riptided targets and bounce through them. No matter it will be 1 or 6 Riptides, the talent will force your CH to bounce through two only. 

[Stoove 347]

Sorry, but as I see it, you don't need more than 3 riptided targets for full use of High Tide.

 

3-4 is roughly optimal, see here for an interesting discussion.

 

 

I'm going to rescind my previous statement about CBT. As I used it as "Fire and Forget" which was totally easy, in many fights it either barely outhealed, or was outhealed by Chain heal. And this was just my earlier kills. I'm going to have to switch to high tide, which brings about all kinds of problems for me.

 

What exactly is wrong with this? Chain Heal isn't a competitor for a talent spot, for one thing. Secondly, as a talent CBT is all about the efficient spread healing throughout a fight (which Chain Heal doesn't give you). So, I don't understand why you think that CBT's total healing being lower than that of Chain Heal is bad.

 

 

How do you guys feel about Glyph of Chaining? If I don't use it, I'd most likely stick with Glyph of Healing Wave.

And have you guys seen much use for Unleashed Fury if you're not using CBT?

Same question goes for EotE

 

EotE is just good overall, and you can use it perfectly well in place of Glyph of Riptide if you're running High Tide. Unleashed Fury is also just good overall, on any fight where you expect to do a lot of single target cast-time healing (i.e... most of them). Use UF rotationally.

 

 

Honestly though, these choices your asking about all depend on play style. I love CBT, but I also know when I'm going to use it. And if I know it's down, I'm not going to spend a bunch of mana trying to top everyone off. I'm going to keep focusing on a few targets and keep them as high as possible while doing some splash healing with HR or Chain Heal. My CBT hardly overheals unless I'm with a really good group (meaning less damage taken, better healers). 

 

This is a much more eloquently phrased version of what I've been trying to say. I think that if ones CBT is overhealing, you're getting the playstyle wrong, but I also think that the general RSham style should by default feed straight into making good use of CBT. That is to say; we should not be looking to top people immediately outside of large cooldowns - our Mastery doesn't play into that. CBT plays very naturally into that style.

 

But what happens then is that I sound like I'm telling a large chunk of the community that they are playing wrong, which never seems to go down well (I have no idea why........)

 

 

I found some inefficiencies in what I was doing before I tried heroic. Gear obviously helps a lot, but I realized I had to use EB for awhile until I got comfortable with my mana. And I had to pay more attention to CBT. I make pretty good use of it in almost every fight, but I should swap to HT for certain encounters that are hard on the raid group.

You may find something similar, that your current ideas about Resto Healing are challenged when up against the Heroic encounters and higher damage.

 

This is actually what I advocate; taking CBT by default and swapping into High Tide on a fight where you feel like it will be useful.

[Pandaids 2]

Wich fights do you guys think it's better to use Hight Tide instead CBT ?

[Blackshorn 0]

Wich fights do you guys think it's better to use Hight Tide instead CBT ?

 

Butcher, Brackenspore and Twins are the bosses that immediately jump to mind for HT.

[Regal 21]

Let's go through Riptide, Chain Heal and High Tide tooltips.

Riptide: Your Chain Heal spell is 25% more effective when the primary target is affected by your Riptide.

Chain Heal: Heals the friendly target, then jumps to heal the most injured nearby targets.

High Tide: Your Chain Heal also bounces to up to 2 additional targets affected by your Riptide.

 

Sorry, but as I see it, you don't need more than 3 riptided targets for full use of High Tide.

1) You riptide your primary target to get 25% buff of CH.

2) Your Chain Heal jumps to the most injured targets - no matter whether they are riptided or not.

3) After these 4 targets High Tide will look for 2 additional Riptided targets and bounce through them. No matter it will be 1 or 6 Riptides, the talent will force your CH to bounce through two only. 

While I do agree with you pandacho, I think the problem here is that for those who are having difficulty with High Tide, or who maybe aren't the best at checking positioning before a cast, 3 riptides just won't be optimal. For a player who's good at utilizing this talent, then yes, 3 is all you need. But if you want to make sure that you'll always get the max out of your chain heal, even when you're not checking positioning, then more would be necessary.

Does that make sense?

Did I get that wrong @Dofri?

 

What exactly is wrong with this? Chain Heal isn't a competitor for a talent spot, for one thing. Secondly, as a talent CBT is all about the efficient spread healing throughout a fight (which Chain Heal doesn't give you). So, I don't understand why you think that CBT's total healing being lower than that of Chain Heal is bad.

 

EotE is just good overall, and you can use it perfectly well in place of Glyph of Riptide if you're running High Tide. Unleashed Fury is also just good overall, on any fight where you expect to do a lot of single target cast-time healing (i.e... most of them). Use UF rotationally.

 

This is a much more eloquently phrased version of what I've been trying to say. I think that if ones CBT is overhealing, you're getting the playstyle wrong, but I also think that the general RSham style should by default feed straight into making good use of CBT. That is to say; we should not be looking to top people immediately outside of large cooldowns - our Mastery doesn't play into that. CBT plays very naturally into that style.

 

But what happens then is that I sound like I'm telling a large chunk of the community that they are playing wrong, which never seems to go down well (I have no idea why........)

 

This is actually what I advocate; taking CBT by default and swapping into High Tide on a fight where you feel like it will be useful.

Well thank you Stoove :)

And I just wanted to say, I definitely agree with that last statement. CBT seems to be a great default choice for the exact reason you mentioned.

In this xpac, healers are really forced to play to their strengths. We WANT to heal lowest health targets but that leaves a lot of people at 90% health. in my opinion, that's when we "pass the baton" and the resto druids pick it up with blanket rejuvenations, wild growth, and wild mushroom. Then they "pass the baton" and disc priests shield them to prevent the next wave of damage. (This is just an example using Resto Shamans and two of the extremely popular healing classes this expansion. Mistweavers, Holy Priests, Paladins, and any other healing class I have forgotten all contribute in their own way).

 

Butcher, Brackenspore and Twins are the bosses that immediately jump to mind for HT.

Umm.. I use CBT for Butcher, and I pulled 41k HPS at max, 34k HPS at lowest. 

Idk if I'd recommend really either talent for butcher, it's just playstyle dependent. 

As for Brackenspore, definitely not High Tide. 

 

Kargath - CBT or High Tide. It's really irrelevant here, so pick what fits you best and what you're most comfortable with.

Butcher - Potentially High Tide for more burst healing, but in this healing-intensive fight, I feel that CBT would be better for the mana efficiency to pace yourself. Spamming CH because you have HT will help put you on top of the healing charts, but it'll also cause problems towards the end when he enrages and you start losing out on mana. I know some of you are going to comment right away on this, "I don't ever have a mana problem. HT is just fine and so is spamming CH". Well, good for you! Check your spirit rating and post it please, PLUS any trinket or enchant proc so we can more accurately assess you spirit rating/mana regen throughout a fight. I have a base of 991 spirit, which is somewhat low, Enchant Weapon - Mark of Shadowmoon, and Winged Hourglass (stage 1 of 3). 

Brackenspore - CBT. You're going to focus more on spot healing and healing those mushrooms! If you do it right, you definitely shouldn't need burst healing because that green mushroom will do it for you. Honestly, even CBT won't make too much of a difference, but to me it makes more sense than HT so I'd stick with it.

Tectus - This is one that I haven't quite decided which I like better. HT is great if people are taking avoidable mechanics damage. However, I can see HT being a method of choice to heal through tectonic upheaval. I would prefer CBT because, when timed right, it'll actually help cover that pretty well. All you need to do is focus on healing the tanks and those who get low on health (which is really easy because just about everyone's health goes down at the same rate for this!).

Twin Ogrons - With the mobility of this fight, I would also go with HT. Honestly, there probably won't be enough time to really get a good use out of CBT. You're either all moving and avoiding fire so you don't have time to heal (this is where druids and disc priests help a lot), OR no one is really taking that much damage anyways. So HT would be the best choice for those reactive moments that you really need it.

Ko'ragh - This one was tough for me to decide. What I've found is that it really depends on your group. Since I Pug a lot, I've been able to experience different compositions and levels of experience with the encounter that I could go either way with talent choice. With a good team, I like CBT the most because I can use it almost as another healing cooldown to overcome that Mark of Shadow. I'll heal up those who are lower health, making extra use of my mastery since it'll first be absorbed, then actually heal them (bonus for CBT!). Then let CBT help remove the absorb on many others (this is where everyone who was worried about overhealing from CBT should enjoy that aspect of it). 

Imperator - I haven't really done well enough on this fight to have made a decision. In fact, I'd be open to advice on how to best do this encounter. It seems this is not only the hardest encounter of the raid (as it should be!), but it's actually the hardest on shamans. I believe I posted this earlier, but I'll refresh quickly. The first two phases there is minimal damage so long as the group avoids mechanics. So there isn't much to heal except during the period with the arcane add. But that can go down quickly, and the other heals usually beat me to it then. After the first and second intermission, our job becomes even harder. There's much more healing to do, so you'd think it'd be our time to shine! But no, we're too busy moving around and dodging things. So it becomes very difficult for us, non-instant, healers to do our jobs. Will a talent choice make a difference here? Quite possibly. Right now, I'd think my best recommendation would be HT for the same reasons as the Twin Ogron fight, but just letting you know that I haven't made up my mind completely.

[Blackshorn 0]

Umm.. I use CBT for Butcher, and I pulled 41k HPS at max, 34k HPS at lowest. 

Idk if I'd recommend really either talent for butcher, it's just playstyle dependent. 

As for Brackenspore, definitely not High Tide. 

 

Most healers are play style dependent.  I use CBT by default and switch to HT when I think it's needed.

I've used both on Butcher, have only done Normal and Heroic, and I just felt it was a bit better.

On Brackenspore I'd argue it depends on what your responsibilities are.  We have an HPally on 'shroom duty and during the spread phases HT can be a benefit.  Is it a far and away better solution?  No.  But I'd argue it's easier to manage if your looking for ways to handle the fight initially.  

 

Don't get me wrong because I like CBT, a lot more than I thought I would, but it takes some time to get used to it and to know when to use it.

[Pandaids 2]

OMG, really you guys are able to spam CH during all Butcher fight and do not go OOM ?? Teach me please lol

 

 

Also, I'm stuck on #3 healing on Imperator....I'm impressed that after days and thousands of wipes during Heroic progression I'm always numbers 3 behind a pally and a druid by around 1-1.5%

 

I know its very low diference, but come onnnnn....how can I see my name on top ??

 

My Logs from last night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zt8NW2Gc4CAmXraj#

 

My char name is Pandaids

 

 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Pandaids

[Pandacho 286]

OMG, really you guys are able to spam CH during all Butcher fight and do not go OOM ?? Teach me please lol

 

 

Also, I'm stuck on #3 healing on Imperator....I'm impressed that after days and thousands of wipes during Heroic progression I'm always numbers 3 behind a pally and a druid by around 1-1.5%

 

I know its very low diference, but come onnnnn....how can I see my name on top ??

 

My Logs from last night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zt8NW2Gc4CAmXraj#

 

My char name is Pandaids

 

Very short?

Two points:

1. You have 6 healers for 26-man - it's a LOT. Except of it, there are 2 druids and disc priest among them - you will not be on the 1st place in this composition if you will not be 'cheating' on healing meters or if you are not perfect and much better then them.

2. You shouldn't 'spam' heals. You are doing a huge overheal with single target spells - it looks like you are spamming without planning which spells to use and on whom in every situation.

Look here:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zt8NW2Gc4CAmXraj#type=healing&options=8&source=137&ability=77472

You made 47% overheal with Healing Wave which is single target heal and should be used on somebody injured? 54% overheal on your tank and 52% overheal on yourself.

Your CBT did only 5.29% of overall healing with 37% overheal. CBT heals only injured people and its normal overheal is less then 10%, so you were just dropping it on CD without planning ahead. 

Through the 7 min fight you casted HR only 6 times. Wasn't your raid stack during the 1-2 phase to move together from mines?

9 casts of Chain Heal. Nobody to heal on Force Novas?

 

What I see here is that you were just dropping CBT on CD spamming HW in whatever target to 'charge' the totem, hoping that it will release its healing to the 'right' targets.

 

I'm sorry for being harsh here, but seeing your name in top need a big work. There is no a magic button :)

[Dofri 4]

@Regal

 

My point was actually rather simple. Yes you can get the maximum benefit from high tide with 3 riptides up. On a 20m raid where everyone is injured the chances of that happening are about 70% according to calculations on heliocentric blog which was linked by stoove and i actually did them also and they look correct. My point was basically that the only way to be 100% SURE of getting max out of high tide under those conditions would be to have 6 riptides up and running.

 

However there are some other problems here.

 

1) If the raid size is smaller than 20m then those chances go down as well (if we have less than 6 riptides that is).

 

2) Those odds are conditioned on EVERYONE being injured at the same time. If those conditions dont hold, so for instance if 3-4 are at full health then those odds go down again.

 

3) If some of the targets that already have riptide are at full health when we cast chain heal then the chances of getting max out of high tide go down and in some cases (for instance if we have 3 riptides and 1 of them is at full health) it will not be possible to get the most out of it. 

 

I imagine that some fights warrant using riptide glyph and others dont. For instance I imagine that if you use high tide on Butcher then you wont really need glyph of riptide since the odds of melees being at full health for instance on that fight are quiet low.

 

But in any case I think its safe to say that saying 3-4 riptides will ALWAYS be the right choice is not likely to be correct. This looks like it needs to be evaluated at each encounter according to the damage pattern of each fight.

 

 

Anyways, those are just my thoughts

Edited December 19, 2014 by Dofri

[Pandacho 286]

I was using Glyph of Riptide through all the SoO - it was awesome. So first thing in Highmaul - I got the glyph. But after 3 raiding weeks I have to say that I was wrong.

How I see the usage of Glyph of Riptide now?

1. It could still benefit if you don't have a resto druid in your raid. Otherwise, you will never be faster than druid to gain from Riptide blanketing more than you lose from its initial heal being cuted. Roughly 6K of healing (glyphed) vs 16K (unglyphed) - it's a very big difference.

2. It could still benefit on fights with constant heavy movement like Tectus, Twin Ogrons.

3. I wouldn't use it on the Butcher (I tried though, because I prefer to try all the possibilities). It doesn't work if you don't have too many healers for this fight - too much damage. My raid was 3-healing 20-man Normal and 4-healing 20-man Heroic (average ilvl of healers 644).

I was healing 2 soacking groups (5+5) with CH and HT talent. No place for Glyph on Heroic, because I needed my Riptides to work as actual heals, not as a utility for CH placement.

 

But don't forget that the healing benefit that you gain from more riptided targets for your High Tide, you lose from your Riptide not being a 'normal' heal anymore. 5-6K is not a heal, imo, it's a utility.

 

I can link here my logs for every fight in Highmaul with Glyph of Riptide, without Glyph of Riptide but with EotE,  without both of them - everything with HT talent, but don't think it's necessary (if you still want to see them, I'll link).

Edited December 20, 2014 by Pandacho

[Cheze 6]

So much of riptide's overall healing is in the initial hit now that the glyph is (imo) difficult to justify using.  Maybe later on in the expansion when regen is better and we can afford to pre-blanket the raid before incoming damage it'll make sense, but the way things are now I don't like it much.

 

Even without EotE you'll have three riptides active at a given time, which is enough to max out high tide.

 

Personally I'm using glyph of chaining for every fight other than butcher; we don't have enough mana to spam chainheal at the moment anyway, so might as well make it as efficient as possible.

[Pandaids 2]

Very short?

Two points:

1. You have 6 healers for 26-man - it's a LOT. Except of it, there are 2 druids and disc priest among them - you will not be on the 1st place in this composition if you will not be 'cheating' on healing meters or if you are not perfect and much better then them.

2. You shouldn't 'spam' heals. You are doing a huge overheal with single target spells - it looks like you are spamming without planning which spells to use and on whom in every situation.

Look here:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zt8NW2Gc4CAmXraj#type=healing&options=8&source=137&ability=77472

You made 47% overheal with Healing Wave which is single target heal and should be used on somebody injured? 54% overheal on your tank and 52% overheal on yourself.

Your CBT did only 5.29% of overall healing with 37% overheal. CBT heals only injured people and its normal overheal is less then 10%, so you were just dropping it on CD without planning ahead. 

Through the 7 min fight you casted HR only 6 times. Wasn't your raid stack during the 1-2 phase to move together from mines?

9 casts of Chain Heal. Nobody to heal on Force Novas?

 

What I see here is that you were just dropping CBT on CD spamming HW in whatever target to 'charge' the totem, hoping that it will release its healing to the 'right' targets.

 

I'm sorry for being harsh here, but seeing your name in top need a big work. There is no a magic button

PANDACHO, you are amazing hahaha !

 

Thats exaclyt what I`m doing !! CBT on CD and spamming HW....maybe not using enough CH and HR because Im afraid to get OOM very soon on the fight !!

 

i`ll try use CH and HR more often...and CBT on CD because its hard to time it right and most of time theres damage on my raid group.

 

Any advice about HW usage ? and maybe Hight Tide instead CBT ?? =)

 

More words please `master' Pandacho hahaha tyvm

[Pandacho 286]

Any advice about HW usage ? and maybe Hight Tide instead CBT ?? =)

 

More words please 

 

Well, I wrote many words about all talents and glyphs in Highmaul here.

[Pandaids 2]

Well, I wrote many words about all talents and glyphs in Highmaul here.

 

Excellent guide !! I'll use !!

I'm j

ust a bit worried about what u said: Im using very few HR and CH....I would like to know if you use HR on CD and how many CH? Because its a lot mana expensive imo.