Few questions about Assassination

[Shammm 1]

Hi guys ! Im new to the rogue class and while reading a guide i was wondering about a few things.

 

1) Opening

 

Guide says u go 5cp into rupture and then u do SR + Vendetta. Isnt it better to at least pull ur energy before SR+V combo or even build another 5cp + pool energy for envenom + envenom buff ? And i also read somewhere that SR is gonna clip ur rupture so why apply it before using SR ?

 

2) AoE rotation

 

a) It says when fighting 2-3 targets i should apply rupture on all of them with at least 3cp. Does the exact number depends on how long they are going to live or is there another reasoning behind that. And also my poisons last for 12 secs i believe while rupture is 24 at 5cps do i need to switch targets when poison goes off ?;

 

4-8. Same question about with how many cps do i apply rupture on them;

 

c) I heard something about pooling 10cps and high energy for envenom + crimson tempest combo and then spamming fan of knives though i didnt see anything like that in the guide

 

3) Rupture

 

Does it take a snapshot of ur stats so u want to apply/reapply it on trinket procs ?

 

4) Vendetta

 

Do u switch targets to apply/reapply rupture/poison when u casted vendetta on one of them ?

 

5) Shadow Relfection vs Venom Rush

 

It says SR is better by 3%, but isnt VR better if theres a second or even more targets most of the fight ? Mb im mistaken but i think VR was designed for Assassination and SR for Subtlety.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Shammm

[Synep 0]

It says SR is better by 3%, but isnt VR better if theres a second or even more targets most of the fight ? Mb im mistaken but i think VR was designed for Assassination and SR for Subtlety

 

 

With energy pooling and correct usage for max burst during abilities i can see SR pulling ahead by 3% on single target fights, if you can FOV (Like Tectus) and hit more than 1..or maybe 2 targets, i can see VR pulling ahead. It would be sketchy then though because you have to factor energy cost/damage per energy spent when using fan of knives.

 

I would stick to SR for Assassination and Sub, and VR for Combat (Using it with Blade flurry).

[Carrn 284]

Okay so

 

1) Applying Rupture asap is important because you need the energy regen that it gives. Most of your damage comes from your poison attacks, which are more effective when casting Envenom. That said, you gain more benefit from it copying more Mut / Dispatch / Envenom casts than Rupture. It's also more important to have the clone copy Vendetta ASAP - Assassination's burst is mediocre at best, so you won't benefit as much from saving cooldowns for a specific window as other specs do

 

2) Depends how long they would live, and how quickly you will be able to get back to that target. If a target is going to run out of your range for a while, applying a longer Rupture is beneficial. Otherwise it doesn't matter much - Deadly Poison only lasts 12 seconds, so you will want to be swapping targets at least that frequently, and applying a smaller Rupture before swapping targets makes things a little easier. Yes always always switch targets to keep your poisons running. Rupture barely does any damage on its own, but with Venomous Wounds its damage is increased a lot. You never want a target to not be poisoned, you lose a TON of damage this way

 

The more targets you have, the fewer cp you want to be spending on Ruptures because you want to be able to swap targets more frequently

 

3) No, snapshotting is no longer in the game except in very specific cases such as Hemo for Sub Rogues

 

4) Yes I would switch targets, but never to cast anything other than Rupture. Build cp on the target with Vendetta, swap to cast as long a Rupture as possible (to avoid having to leave the Vendetta target) and refresh poisons, then swap back to continue to build cp. Casting any skill other than Rupture on the second target is a loss of damage

 

5) Venom Rush would be more beneficial if you can guarantee to always have 2-3 targets poisoned, but I believe the only fight that you can do this is Twin Ogron. It is likely more beneficial in this case, because you often have to leave your target to dodge spell effects, which will reduce the amount of time you can train a Vendetta target for

 

VR is actually best for Combat, because neither Assassination nor Sub gain a lot of benefit from Haste.

[Shammm 1]

Wow thanks for the fast replies guys !

 

1) What is FoV ?

 

2) Lets say there are 4+ targets and one of them drops to 35% do i need to start using dispatch or keep using FoK ?

 

3) Since poison lasts 12 secs isnt it better to apply rupture with 2cps which is also much easier/faster instead of 3+, anyway we will need to reapply poison ? Is it some kind of a magic number or smth ?

[Synep 0]

 

 

1) What is FoV ? 

Sorry meant FOK (Fan of Knives), was tired when i posted!

 

 

 

2) Lets say there are 4+ targets and one of them drops to 35% do i need to start using dispatch or keep using FoK ?

I'm pretty sure it's a DPS gain to continue to use FOK if you have 4+ targets, unsure as to how assassination goes in aoe fights, i would still recommend wombat for these types of fights.

 

 

 

3) Since poison lasts 12 secs isnt it better to apply rupture with 2cps which is also much easier/faster instead of 3+, anyway we will need to reapply poison ? Is it some kind of a magic number or smth ?

Rupture damage is scaled as (More Combo Points spent =/More Damage Per Tick/=More total Ticks) That's why you try to rupture with maximum Combo points. On Multi target fights i would use combo points and rupture every target instead of using envenom on just one of them specfically (unless the fight calls you to single target one of the adds)

[Carrn 284]

Rupture damage is scaled as (More Combo Points spent =/More Damage Per Tick/=More total Ticks) That's why you try to rupture with maximum Combo points. On Multi target fights i would use combo points and rupture every target instead of using envenom on just one of them specfically (unless the fight calls you to single target one of the adds)

 

Even then, most of Rupture's damage isn't from itself for Assassination. It mostly comes from Venomous Wounds, which adds poison damage to your ticks, and that's where most damage comes from.

 

As for the Dispatch when AoE targetting, I think it depends what the objective is. If you're just straight AoE cleaving then it's probably better just to spam FoK, but if one add has priority then you can push it down faster with Dispatch (like on the last boss of Highmaul, when he spawns the adds for the intermission, you don't want them to all die at once so I would Dispatch when one gets low)

[Shammm 1]

 

Rupture damage is scaled as (More Combo Points spent =/More Damage Per Tick/=More total Ticks) That's why you try to rupture with maximum Combo points.

What i meant was when there are multiple targets its gonna take forever to apply 5cps rupture on all of them so instead u can go with 2cps to gain that energy regen faster and since dmg from rupture comes mainly from VW (if im not mistaken) isnt it better to do like that cuz both rupture and our poison are gonna last 12 secs, after that we do both things, we reapply rupture to 5cp and reapply our poison aswell. So once again question is which one in terms of dps is better : 1) We go 2cp rupture on all of them and then reapply to 5; 2) We build 5 cps rupture on all of them from start.

 

Also i want to learn other specs, can u guys give me some insight ? Like what are the benefits goin Sub/Combat/Muti, whats their purpose ?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Shammm

[Carrn 284]

To answer your first question, option 3 is 3-4 cp Ruptures on all of them, which will allow you to keep refreshing poisons and Ruptures at the same time.

 

You don't refresh Rupture right as it expires, you clip the duration so it doesn't actually expire. DoT duration gets extended if you clip it under 30% of its time, so you never lose damage

 

 

Also i want to learn other specs, can u guys give me some insight ? Like what are the benefits goin Sub/Combat/Muti, whats their purpose ?

 

What do you mean by their purpose? They all deal damage lol. Assassination is very simple, there's not a whole lot of things to keep track of and not a whole lot of cooldowns to use properly. Combat is more spam-happy with more frequently used skills, but also more to track. Sub is the most complicated, with a large number of buffs / debuffs to track and more awareness of your cooldowns and the best times to use them

[Shammm 1]

Purpose = Subtlety shines when theres single target (this is just an assumption) all the way like butcher in HM, Assassination is better on Brackenspore. Thats what i meant by purpose. Or the only thing that is different is their abilities and thats it ?

 

Also, im really confused with the Stats priority. Icy-veins guide says to max mastery, other guides prioritize crit, im kinda lost. In the end im using shadowcraft which tells me that i should go multistrike for all the enchants. http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/character/%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6-%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8/%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81/simple. Would be really great if someone could clear things out.

 

And there is another 4+ AoE rotation which says u should apply rupture on exactly 3 targets and not on all of them, Crimson tempest should be prioritized over envenom and envenom should be cast only if rupture duration is 10+; CT buff is active 5+ seconds; we have 9-10 cp.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Shammm

[Carrn 284]

If that's what you meant then they are all fairly close Shamm. Combat shines on cleave fights of more than 3 targets, but Sub stays very close if not better until there are more than 3. Assassination does mediocre on everything, in part because of the simplicity of the spec

 

Stats for Assassination are pretty close - Mastery and Crit are effectively equal. I suggest checking Shadowcraft to find out exactly which is best in your current gear

 

At 4+ targets it barely matters, honestly. Chances are good that they're small mobs which will end up dying pretty quickly - they won't live through a CT bleed nor will Rupture be that effective. I'd Rupture the couple highest health ones and just spam FoK with Envenom on the lowest hp so I can help burn it asap

[Shammm 1]

Thanks a lot for ur answers man. I guess ill switch to Sub but there are so few of them that i saw (mostly combat). As for Shadowcraft, it tells me to go multistrike on my enchants and gems, thats why i was asking cuz every guide i check it says i should go either mastery or crit and that bothers me a lot since i do most dmg thro poisons = i need mastery. Crit is also valuable stat but multistrike..

[Carrn 284]

For Assassination, you gain bonus cp on crits. More cp = more Envenom = more poisons applied. That's why you need some of each, so you don't lose out on any one particular thing

[lipsinch 46]

A quick rundown on specs (totally unbiased):

 

Subtlety is the top single target spec. Got increased AoE/cleave effectiveness this expac with FoK generating CP per mob hit. This makes Sub a quite strong choice for most of content this expac. Also is the TRUE FEEL OF BEING A ROGUE. If you wanna be a Roguewannabe, keep reading further.

 

Combat is the AoE king. Blade Flurry makes it shine when you need to burn/cleave several stuff. Haste/Mastery and you're good to lose your hands. Tread carefully. Tends to get good @ end of expac due to high levels of haste in gear.

 

Assassination is the middle ground guy. Doesn't do the same single target damage as Subtlety nor the AoE cleave that Combat has, but since good part of your damage is through poisons, it's a good spec for fights where you have a lot of downtime on boss. Also the lack of stat specialization makes it way too... bland. The spec itself has really good damage, but the lack of stat "specificness" makes other specs shine moar.

 

Carrn, as you mentioned on other topic, that's why I dropped Combat (had some 567 gear at the time - not high, but yielded some decent DPS in my group, enough to brag with some ppl lol). I love my hands. I need them to fa-erm, do stuff. Manual stuff. I don't find it sooo dull, since I find funny the ZOMGFRENETICLOLOLOLO way of being, but my limbs can't keep up with it.

 

Honestly, without a single drop of bias (HAH), Subtlety will be king this time.