[Prot/Holy] Confusing differences in stat priority on noxxic.com

[Lev 0]

Hey everybody, this is my first post here on the forums.

I am concerned about the different stat priority list on noxxic.com

Actually: I trust IcyVeins much more, since the prot guide here is reviewed by TheckPhD who i know for years from the maintankadin forums.

But of course, this is not about trust, but the truth itself!

 

So, any information, why the stat priorities on noxxic.com are so much different?

For me it seems, that their list is almost just about DPS... but thats not what Tanks are made for, so i am kind of laughing into my pants about that ^^

 

But, i am also concerned about the Holy spec here, since our guilds holy just does not know, which source to trust right now. (and i am not much into holy stuff since classic)

Edited December 7, 2014 by Lev

[Fouton 266]

I feel like their build caters a little more towards Seraphim than Holy Shield, but either way it's still very strange. They probably are running some sort of calculator rather than running the sims themselves.

 

My only note towards trusting Theck is he overvalues stamina greatly. Stamina is only useful to keep you from getting 2-3 shot, but even around a 640 ilvl I haven't been experiencing stam issues in Heroic Raids yet. His TMI formula seems to be based off how your HP moves % wise, however in WoD healers need all the help they can get in tank healing, so I'd focus more on other stats when you get upgrades, and avoid gemming stam.

 

 

 

As for holy, Ill get someone to give you some help on that one.

[Fyrpixie 4]

But, i am also concerned about the Holy spec here, since our guilds holy just does not know, which source to trust right now. (and i am not much into holy stuff since classic)

 

You're right about all the conflicting information on websites when it comes to Holy paladins.  I visit 3 sites on a regular basis, and all of them have different stat priorities.  However, I will throw in what I have learned over the last few weeks while raiding and doing heroics / CM's.  Now, I am not in any hardcore guild, and I am not going to claim to know everything, because I am still learning, but I have been doing a ton of research and respeccing and re-enchanting just to see better results on a daily basis.

 

So far, I have found that the best stat priority to be int > crit > mastery (possibly multistrike...have yet to test multistrike thoroughly).  Throwing spirit in wherever we can.  I have tried haste first in the stat priority, and for RIGHT NOW, it seems to just make me oom faster.  I am pulling more HPS overall with the crit, but like I said, that's just for now.  I do believe that haste may overtake that eventually, when gear gets better.  

 

There is even a lot of conflicting information when looking up the holy paladins in top guilds.  Some do strictly mastery, while others are doing crit, but none of them that I have had the chance to check out, are stacking haste at this time.  At least not yet.  Like I said, I do believe that eventually that will be our main secondary stat.

 

I hope someone can get a holy pally to come on here soon and comment on some of this, because I would love to hear what they have to say!  

Edited December 8, 2014 by Fyrpixie

[Lev 0]

Thanks for the replies so far. Looking forward to get more info from others

[Ariashley 0]

So far, I have found that the best stat priority to be int > crit > mastery (possibly multistrike...have yet to test multistrike thoroughly).  Throwing spirit in wherever we can.  I have tried haste first in the stat priority, and for RIGHT NOW, it seems to just make me oom faster.  I am pulling more HPS overall with the crit, but like I said, that's just for now.  I do believe that haste may overtake that eventually, when gear gets better.   

 

I'm personally preferring Int>Spirit>Crit>Haste>Multistrike>Mastery>Versatility when I have choices.  I've always liked haste, even when it was not popular.  Yes, it can make you go oom faster, but it also makes Holy Light castable in a reasonable time frame and can save you on movement heavy fights.  It also can help with burst when you need it.  If I can jump around and not heal for a few seconds because damage is light, great.

 

I've never been a huge mastery fan, personally.  I'd always rather be prepared for worst case scenario, which is usually when a healer has died and a boss is at 5% and you're just trying to keep everyone alive for 15 more seconds. Then, the haste is absolutely invaluable.  I'm back to the days of carrying mana pots though.  And I definitely used one at the end of the Butcher yesterday, though I maybe didn't need to.

 

I think a big part of the reason that there isn't a perfect and obvious best for holy is because it depends.  It depends on your raid, the other healers in your raid, whether you're in raids or CMs or heroics or hard raids vs easy raids.  It depends on which talents you chose and why and on your personal play style.  Lastly, it depends on what problem is happening.  If you're dying to AOE, then maybe you need more versatility.  If everyone else in your raid is dying, maybe mastery will help with shields if you can keep them up on people.  Healers are more pay style oriented than other roles imo.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Ariashley

[Fyrpixie 4]

 It depends on your raid, the other healers in your raid, whether you're in raids or CMs or heroics or hard raids vs easy raids.  It depends on which talents you chose and why and on your personal play style.  Lastly, it depends on what problem is happening.  

 

I couldn't agree with this statement more.  There are just too many ways a holy pally can gear, and it really only comes down to this, your play style.  You really do have to go through all the stats and see what works best for you.  This is exactly why there are so many conflicting reports on the stats for Holy Paladins! 

Edited December 13, 2014 by Fyrpixie

[Vear 3]

Man these forums are sort of dead! It's too bad, because this is a great discussion. Without presuming to speak for other people, the holy paladins in top guilds that I've armory-stalked seemed to be, at the very least, enchanting into crit. Without reforging, it's somewhat difficult to know what stats players are actually prioritizing, but there certainly appears to be some degree of consensus surrounding crit. I ain't much for math, but with our various procs, as well as the new Sanctified Light (crit bonus) passive, not to mention the way Holy Shock interacts with crit now, I think we are probably right to gem and enchant crit on holy paladin.

 

It's the other stats that are the problem! Disclaimer: these are purely qualitative arguments on my part, made with minimal understanding of the actual, granular math that might go into it. Versatility is stupid, so really it comes down to a question of what comes after crit: haste, mastery, or multistrike? 

 

Haste certainly seems effective in the holy-light-spam double-beacon environment we currently find ourselves in. Casting Holy Light (and all of our other spells, of course) faster is good, I think we all can agree. People often voice a fear that haste will lead them to go oom faster, but I'm not sure that this is a pressing concern. If you're using your increased haste rating to cast Holy Radiance when you should be casting Holy Light, maybe it's a problem. But with the changes to spirit and mana regeneration more broadly, Holy Light and its ilk are incredibly cheap. Haste also gains some value it didn't have in MoP with the addition of cast times to our holy power spenders. Haste might be a valuable stat to focus on if we are taking crit as our top priority, given that the consistency of haste would complement the somewhat-random nature of crit as our primary throughput stat. 

 

Because our mastery doesn't affect beacon heals, an argument can be made for focusing on throughput stats that will more fully complement our double-beacon playstyle. I want to like mastery, and on certain fights I think it's probably still an effective throughput stat. On Heroic Butcher, for example, constant damage on the same small set of targets ensured my mastery absorbs weren't being wasted at all. On paper, mastery is pure throughput! But only if the shield actually prevents meaningful damage. On Heroic Butcher this is practically guaranteed to be the case. On other fights, I'm not sure that's true.  

 

Multistrike is... perplexing. Again I'm allergic to math but based on the way the stat scales, it seems that at lower multistrike values, the stat will be more valuable, whereas at higher rating levels it will likely become less and less useful. I have had little opportunity to experiment with the stat in a raid environment because my gear is sorely lacking in it, and raid buffed I'm sitting at less than 10% multistrike chance. That being said, I think multistrike is probably a very effective stat currently, especially since multistrike healing travels across our beacons. Hopefully someone can crunch some numbers on the multistrike rating we would want to reach before other stats would overtake it in value, but at low levels of multistrike (where most of us are currently) I think it will be far more effective than mastery.  

 

So my tentative stat priority would be: Int>Spirit>Crit>Multistrike>Haste>Mastery>>>Versatility

 

I'd love to hear from some holy paladins who have had an opportunity to utilize multistrike to a greater extent, though.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Vear