Warlocks - Where we stand after tuning

[Zagam 1,982]

Yep, Terrorguard summons you, not the other way around.  In fact, my Terrorguard told me he contacted someone to have them look at my logs because he feels like he's carrying me. 

 

He's correct.

 

Cataclysm is powerful in some unique situation such as Tectus' motes and some of the adds on Kargath in the stands.  For Destruction, Terrorguard is going to be your choice. 

[Gnar 26]

Terrorguard is only amazing now because we lack so many stats. Build up your mastery as non Demo and your pet will do less of your work. Pets always scale less effectively than the player. Currently though, I do believe they could shift more damage to the player and let us maximize at the level that we use to. My Chaos bolt that use to be the damage of 6-10 Incinerates is now lucky to hit for the value of 5 of them and can't touch Kill Shot. I'd like to see Chaos Bolt go back to its iconic huge damge but here is why I don't see that happening for it and also why the other specs won't see that type of love:

Buff Chaos Bolt?

They can't because it would bring up CR to a value the other talents couldn't compete with. Even just changing its scaling won't happen because "it would affect the people not taking advantage of trinket snapshotting too negatively." Dumb reasoning but hey, being realistic.

Buff Meta form?

Nope, this would force Demonbolt. Only love Demo will see is +3% here and there.

Buff Haunt?

This MIGHT be the only thing to happen. It won't force SB:Haunt because if haunt is buffed, why spend shards on a different abilty? Counter arguement is that you would need it to buff the Haunts you are casting. This adds necessary complexity by adding choices and I would like to see that happen. That being sad, Affliction is already really at this stage and only needs those goofy 5% buffs to compete with other classes so this probably won't happen.

TLDR: Terrorguard OP at low ilvl. Expect shitty +% buffs after the Mythic race.

[Alphric 7]

If this was MMOC or Blizzard forums we might fall for this kind of base behavior, but this is Icy-Veins and we don't play that game. Arguments that are supported with data, fact, measurable and quantifiable evidence are the only arguments that are entertained here. Opinions and arguments that openly ignore such things are dismissed as inconsequential.

My b, dawg!

[Lockybalboa 618]

My b, dawg!

 

No, no, you were fine dude.

[Desos 18]

@Locky thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. I didn´t read  the last page before Alphrics post.

B2T: I don´t want to play affliction in its current state. If I wanted to play a shadow, I would. play one. Even shadow feels more compelling with dot-weaving etc. 

And a single %-buff to demo or destro only delays the scaling issue to higher ilvl.

 

I`ll probably stick to demo/destro and have fun.

[vaeevictiss 17]

Yep, Terrorguard summons you, not the other way around.  In fact, my Terrorguard told me he contacted someone to have them look at my logs because he feels like he's carrying me. 

 

He's correct.

 

Cataclysm is powerful in some unique situation such as Tectus' motes and some of the adds on Kargath in the stands.  For Destruction, Terrorguard is going to be your choice. 

 

Knowing blizz logic i can see where this is going though...

 

"Wow, that Terrorguard is doing a lot of damage compared to the warlock...were going to have to nerf Terrorguards".

[Chickymaymay 1]

Knowing blizz logic i can see where this is going though...

 

"Wow, that Terrorguard is doing a lot of damage compared to the warlock...were going to have to nerf Terrorguards".

"Shit, we forgot to prune Warlock pet abilities!  We'll fix that..."

[Lockstar 0]

dunno what you are talking about)

i'm topping charts on Kargath and Butcher in Heroic w/ Demonology

 

really happy about my fav spec becoming viable

 

edit: yes, my guild is really bad

Edited December 13, 2014 by Lockstar

[Liquidsteel 279]

I think all 3 specs are in a great position relative to each other, to the extent that you can play what you want on almost every encounter.

We aren't terrible but we certainly aren't stellar. The recent buffs to Mages really helped them out, Boomkins are strong too, and don't get me started on melee...

Having said that, on Twin Ogron and Brackenspore I was comfortably mid to high and didn't play particularly well. Between our 3 specs we're still fairly versatile, such as me switching to Destruction to deal with the spore shooters better so it's not all bad.

Tectus on Sunday is going to be incredible for Demonology, as will Ko'ragh, and Destruction was made for fights like Imperator.

Keep chugging along!

[Luvlockdown 0]

Hey guys,

 

I'm rather new to playing Warlock, from what I understand I can't expect to be top DPS right now, but I can live with that, I'm just trying to learn as much as possible. I really like to play Demo and from what I've read here it doesn't really matter what you play right now since all specs are really close together? I just kind of want to be sure, because I've been switching between specs alot to try out myself, but I guess that's a bit useless without any decent gear and it also prevents me from learning a spec really well. I guess I'm just looking for a bit of confirmation if it's ok that I stick to Demo or if I should switch to another spec. 

 

I've been reading alot of threads here, guides etc, but I'm still really confused, so I hope you guys don' t my question.

 

Thank you.

[Liquidsteel 279]

If you want to play Demo on every fight you can. Demonbolt on everything except Tectus where you want Cataclysm.

Have fun!

[Luvlockdown 0]

If you want to play Demo on every fight you can. Demonbolt on everything except Tectus where you want Cataclysm.

Have fun!

 

Does the same go for Destro? I've read in the Highmaul guide here that you can pretty much run any spec on all bosses but that Demo is preferred for Tectus?

 

Thank you!

Edited December 14, 2014 by Luvlockdown

[Lockybalboa 618]

Yes, all three specs do about as well as each other on all of the fights.

[Luvlockdown 0]

Thank you

[Cedrin 3]

Well latest round of hot fixes giving some love to hunters and rogues. I was hoping for something with RoF at least.

[Garmeth 2]

Well latest round of hot fixes giving some love to hunters and rogues. I was hoping for something with RoF at least.

I'm expecting to be average or worst for the entirety of the expansion save for a fight or two. Blizzard is giving warlocks the starcraft treatment and kicking us to the curb for now.

 

The worst part about this entire phenomenon is that we seem getting punished ( actively and/or subconsciously) for being overpowered in mists, mainly in SoO as the overall best dps class. 

 

However, all three specs on a pure dps class with questionable utility performing so poorly? Sacrilege.

 

[Vile 9]

Are we really 'that' bad off right now? Me and my warlok guildie seem to be one or both of us in the top five most fights. Is this just our skill in relation to other DPS in the raid or are you guys exaggerating? Neither me or the other lock are super good players so the discrepancy in potential DPS can't be that big even if there was a skill gap.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Vile

[Lockybalboa 618]

Are we really 'that' bad off right now? 

 

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#dataset=90&difficulty=4

[Vile 9]

Welp, guess I'll tell the others to shape the fuck up... Also, dat WW graph.

[Mikedawg 4]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#dataset=90&difficulty=4

 

With a little addition: The second lowest class (Rogues) just got a reasonable buff.

[Saifadin 0]

I want to add one thing to this discussion ( alt will argue it is because of the gear), but watching the method kills and how Sparkuggs (in my oppinion the best warlock out there) is positioned in terms of DPS in a TOP Guild like Method with people playing nearly flawless, I have to say:

 

If you love your class and you love playing your specc and if you master it, you will always top DPS, thats why I love the Icy-Veins Guide over other pages. It has always a section about "Mastering" your class, and this is the most important thing in my opinion.

In my guild I always play Demo or Destro (currently Demo because of the high amount of mastery gear I got the last weeks) 19k/21k only dropping DPS because of raid leading and being distracted sometimes. The rest are not bad skill wise, but I just love my specc and my class and I always try to maximize my DPS and my output by testing different opening rotations or how to use cooldowns and and and.

 

TL;DR Play a specc you love and understand fully and you will top DPS like Sparkuggz in Method!

[Zagam 1,982]

Remember - classes scale differently and guilds like Method filter all gear to players in the first couple of weeks, so I think he was 670+ making him look vastly different than the rest of us.  I haven't seen their logs, so I can't compare the item levels of his guildmates, but that guild has the best players of the best who always find ways to maximize their damage when it's needed - they are statistical outliers.  Considering Mythic has been out for 1 week, you also can't look at individual parses as RNG can play a heavy role in altering expected DPS.

 

We are, statistically proven, the 11th best class in the game A.K.A. the worst.  Every other class has a spec above the best Warlock spec.  We're not so far behind that we should be replaced.  Those replacing Warlocks are unfortunate enough to play with Warlocks incapable of adjusting.  We are far enough back that if you have an alternative class equally geared, you'll likely out damage your Warlock.  Remember, the graph Locky linked pulls in THOUSANDS of parses.  What you're seeing is a culmination of many many parses so you're getting statistically sound data and can make educated deductions about the state of classes.  Any one parse you see with your guild can have hugely varying RNG as well as mixes of good and bad performances. 

 

The sad fact is if you're topping meters as a Warlock, the others in your group should be practicing their rotations some more.

[Saifadin 0]

Remember - classes scale differently and guilds like Method filter all gear to players in the first couple of weeks, so I think he was 670+ making him look vastly different than the rest of us.  I haven't seen their logs, so I can't compare the item levels of his guildmates, but that guild has the best players of the best who always find ways to maximize their damage when it's needed - they are statistical outliers.  Considering Mythic has been out for 1 week, you also can't look at individual parses as RNG can play a heavy role in altering expected DPS.

 

We are, statistically proven, the 11th best class in the game A.K.A. the worst.  Every other class has a spec above the best Warlock spec.  We're not so far behind that we should be replaced.  Those replacing Warlocks are unfortunate enough to play with Warlocks incapable of adjusting.  We are far enough back that if you have an alternative class equally geared, you'll likely out damage your Warlock.  Remember, the graph Locky linked pulls in THOUSANDS of parses.  What you're seeing is a culmination of many many parses so you're getting statistically sound data and can make educated deductions about the state of classes.  Any one parse you see with your guild can have hugely varying RNG as well as mixes of good and bad performances. 

 

The sad fact is if you're topping meters as a Warlock, the others in your group should be practicing their rotations some more.

 

I agree mosrly with you, except the last sentence. That would mean that the guys at method should rewatch their roataions, because a warlock is at the top.

 

What I am trying to say is, if you maximize your knowledge of your class you will top DPS. Even with a warlock! Look at the simcraft results when you choose Maximal DPS, At that point you can find Affliciotn at the top and the other two in middle of the pack. 

 

My guild have some guys who are not playing to the level they could and the ones that do are above me thats right^^

[Zagam 1,982]

Where in the world do you see Affliction at the top?  Affliction is, if anything, the spec most tied to RNG.  I'm sure with a huge uptime in Haunt, things change a bit. 

[Saifadin 0]

Where in the world do you see Affliction at the top?  Affliction is, if anything, the spec most tied to RNG.  I'm sure with a huge uptime in Haunt, things change a bit. 

 

Okay I dont know if this source is accredible :P but at noxxic with Multi-target and maximum and high ilvl we are quite high (Demo not Affli). 

 

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings#680,max,3

 

Still single target we are shitty as hell, if we have players with equal skill in a raid. And yeah Sparkuggz's skill is higher than the rest probably^^