Question about Sv Vs MM,

[Summion 2]

With the slight nerf to MM, its simming only couple thousand dps or less against Sv, and as someone still isn't super comfortable with the MM rotation. Would it be best for me to switch to sv as i did last night during my raid and actually topped our dps meters on butcher. Or because gear becomes better would it be better to get better at MM?

[Orthios 271]

With the slight nerf to MM, its simming only couple thousand dps or less against Sv, and as someone still isn't super comfortable with the MM rotation. Would it be best for me to switch to sv as i did last night during my raid and actually topped our dps meters on butcher. Or because gear becomes better would it be better to get better at MM?

If you're not comfortable with the MM rotation then you'll do less dps than you will with SV if you are comfortable with the SV rotation.  

[Atrais 38]

With the slight nerf to MM, its simming only couple thousand dps or less against Sv, and as someone still isn't super comfortable with the MM rotation. Would it be best for me to switch to sv as i did last night during my raid and actually topped our dps meters on butcher. Or because gear becomes better would it be better to get better at MM?

 

The latest Simulationcraft shows MM about 1k DPS ahead of SV at the 630 ilvl, but obviously that can change up or down slightly based on your exact gear.  If you have more Multistrike, for example, SV might actually parse higher for you.

I will say what I have said at least a dozen times so far since WoD release: all three hunter specs are viable for raiding, all three do competent DPS.  If you want the absolutely highest numbers possible, MM is still the best in most ST situations and BM is still the best in most AoE situations.  But, at the end of the day, all three specs do enough DPS to be viable, so play the spec you enjoy.

[Atrais 38]

If you're not comfortable with the MM rotation then you'll do less dps than you will with SV if you are comfortable with the SV rotation.  

 

Another great point, MM being ahead on Sims is meaningless if you can't execute the rotation properly

[Iridar 80]

Give it a bit of time. At first I felt very uncomfortable with MM's rotations as well. I actually posted my thoughts on this forum back then: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7341-how-im-feeling-about-the-state-of-hunters-atm/?p=77779

 

I also considered switching to SV just because it felt easier to play.

 

But now that I've been raiding for some time as MM, I'm feeling quite comfortable with it. 

 

Give it a couple of weeks, if your issues with MM don't go away, then you can think about switching to SV.

[Orthios 271]

Give it a bit of time. At first I felt very uncomfortable with MM's rotations as well. I actually posted my thoughts on this forum back then: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7341-how-im-feeling-about-the-state-of-hunters-atm/?p=77779

 

I also considered switching to SV just because it felt easier to play.

 

But now that I've been raiding for some time as MM, I'm feeling quite comfortable with it. 

 

Give it a couple of weeks, if your issues with MM don't go away, then you can think about switching to SV.

In all honesty, I might be switching mains to my monk in a few weeks.  It's not that I have anything against hunters atm or that my guild is going for mythic server first (not happening, though I was asked to join the only guild on my server that has mythic progression) or anything, but rather that as a player I strive for high dps, and really only now have the option of switching mains.  Hunters being middle of the pack in dps is ok, but when I have the option of playing a higher dps class/spec, it starts appealing more and more.  Again, I will be waiting though to see if more damage tuning happens before I do so.

[Atrais 38]

In all honesty, I might be switching mains to my monk in a few weeks.  It's not that I have anything against hunters atm or that my guild is going for mythic server first (not happening, though I was asked to join the only guild on my server that has mythic progression) or anything, but rather that as a player I strive for high dps, and really only now have the option of switching mains.  Hunters being middle of the pack in dps is ok, but when I have the option of playing a higher dps class/spec, it starts appealing more and more.  Again, I will be waiting though to see if more damage tuning happens before I do so.

 

Is it not an option for you to have both? My main is my Hunter but I play my Ret almost as much and he is only slightly less geared.  Gearing being so much easier in WoD, it's relatively easy to keep alts close to your main

Edited December 10, 2014 by Atrais

[Orthios 271]

Is it not an option for you to have both? My main is my Hunter but I play my Ret almost as much and he is only slightly less geared.  Gearing being so much easier in WoD, it's relatively easy to keep alts close to your main

It's an option, but my guild only really has one raid group, and I'm not the biggest fan of pugging things.  My main (currently hunter) is the one I'd take to raid with this group.

[Atrais 38]

It's an option, but my guild only really has one raid group, and I'm not the biggest fan of pugging things.  My main (currently hunter) is the one I'd take to raid with this group.

 

Yeah, if you dont have alt runs, I guess you gotta pick one or the other.

Well, best of luck whichever you end up choosing!

[Summion 2]

Thanks for the imput guys, i think i will most likely be playing a combination of the both depending on the fights, been pugging butcher kills to just test each one and it seems if i have to move alot, the rotation in mm starts to get out hand where as with Sv i can move and complete the rotation. Good luck to all of you as we move into mythic progression, Also GO midwinter for world first

[Iridar 80]

In all honesty, I might be switching mains to my monk in a few weeks.  It's not that I have anything against hunters atm or that my guild is going for mythic server first (not happening, though I was asked to join the only guild on my server that has mythic progression) or anything, but rather that as a player I strive for high dps, and really only now have the option of switching mains.  Hunters being middle of the pack in dps is ok, but when I have the option of playing a higher dps class/spec, it starts appealing more and more.  Again, I will be waiting though to see if more damage tuning happens before I do so.

Hunter is my love and my soul, but I'd be lying if I said WW monks don't sound interesting to me. I'm actually leveling a WW monk alt myself right now. Not because they're highest DPS according to simcraft, but that adds spice as well. I've been brewing an idea of playing a sort of "fighter of the alliance" human gal for a long time now. Updated human models and Stormwind Guard transmog set finally make that possible. 

 

I also always was attracted to non-mainstream stuff when it doesn't concern my main, especially if it allows to get higher DPS. I had a lot of fun playing masterfrost DK back in Cata, which had a harder rotation, but allowed to potentially get higher DPS because of that. WW monks seems to be next best thing now, seeing as Blizzard made masterfrost DK default playstyle for 1h DW DKs.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Iridar

[Atrais 38]

i think i will most likely be playing a combination of the both depending on the fights

 

Thats really the best way to do it, every fight is going to play out a bit differently depending on the spec and you may find the spec you prefer for one fight is different than the spec you prefer for another.  For example, I personally preferred rolling with SV on Tectus because the AoE damage was better and the insta-casts were helpful for adds.

[Orthios 271]

Hunter is my love and my soul, but I'd be lying if I said WW monks don't sound interesting to me. I'm actually leveling a WW monk alt myself right now. Not because they're highest DPS according to simcraft, but that adds spice as well. I've been brewing an idea of playing a sort of "fighter of the alliance" human gal for a long time now. Updated human models and Stormwind Guard transmog set finally make that possible. 

 

I also always was attracted to non-mainstream stuff when it doesn't concern my main, especially if it allows to get higher DPS. I had a lot of fun playing masterfrost DK back in Cata, which had a harder rotation, but allowed to potentially get higher DPS because of that. WW monks seems to be next best thing now, seeing as Blizzard made masterfrost DK default playstyle for 1h DW DKs.

Haha, yeah.  My monk is currently BrM/MW, and is both my first tank and my first healer (despite just about everything I've read saying don't play a monk as your first tank/healer due to complexity).  Thankfully, gearing is a lot easier now so all I need is a cloak, neck, ring, and a trinket .

[Niix 169]

I dunno where people got these numbers but this is the sim that I ran just about 2 seconds ago.

 

695 BiS:

 

My current gear:

[Summion 2]

Off my gear mm was simming from 2k to 1k over SV, depending on the variables didnt do bm because i hate it for pve

[Atrais 38]

I dunno where people got these numbers but this is the sim that I ran just about 2 seconds ago.

 

 

Mine came from simulcraft:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17P.html

[Niix 169]

Mine came from simulcraft:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17P.html

 

The 630 gearsets they use are so stupidly unattainable that it is quite literally pointless to look at that information. Nobody is going to get BiS 630 gear with stats they want, let alone the fact that nobody who really really cares about simc is going to walk into a raid with a 630 ilvl with that gear. It's all 630 blue gear, which can literally roll every combination of stats. The fact of the matter is that nobody is going to walk into a raid with that gear so it's a pointless benchmark. What they should've done is let people run their own sim in their own gear so it's more relevant to that person.

 

Someone might look at that and go hey SV is within 1k of MM I should play that, while they have 3% multi-strike and all crit and wonder why their damage is shit.

 

Sorry to get up in arms about this but it just really annoys me that they think that gearset is a good judgement of the DPS at that ilvl.

[Atrais 38]

Sorry to get up in arms about this but it just really annoys me that they think that gearset is a good judgement of the DPS at that ilvl.

 

No worries, I am always willing to be corrected if my information is incorrect, apologies for propagating misleading information.  Would you say the 660 and 695 benchmarks are more accurate, or should I avoid those as well?

[Iridar 80]

I dunno where people got these numbers but this is the sim that I ran just about 2 seconds ago.

 

695 BiS:

 

My current gear:

Seems like pretty impressive balance.

 

The 630 gearsets they use are so stupidly unattainable that it is quite literally pointless to look at that information. Nobody is going to get BiS 630 gear with stats they want, let alone the fact that nobody who really really cares about simc is going to walk into a raid with a 630 ilvl with that gear. It's all 630 blue gear, which can literally roll every combination of stats. The fact of the matter is that nobody is going to walk into a raid with that gear so it's a pointless benchmark. What they should've done is let people run their own sim in their own gear so it's more relevant to that person.

 

Someone might look at that and go hey SV is within 1k of MM I should play that, while they have 3% multi-strike and all crit and wonder why their damage is shit.

 

Sorry to get up in arms about this but it just really annoys me that they think that gearset is a good judgement of the DPS at that ilvl.

I actually haven't thought about that, I never took a look at what gear they used in 630 sims, but I did use them as reference point. It's useful to know those numbers are meaningless.

[Niix 169]

No worries, I am always willing to be corrected if my information is incorrect, apologies for propagating misleading information.  Would you say the 660 and 695 benchmarks are more accurate, or should I avoid those as well?

 

You don't need to apologize. I was more ranting than telling you you're wrong. 

[Summion 2]

Simming your own gear is the best way to see what you should be hitting 

[Niix 169]

Simming your own gear is the best way to see what you should be hitting 

 

100%

[Kulia 39]

Simming your own gear is the best way to see what you should be hitting 

And is exactly what I'd do if I knew how to use simcraft!

so I look upon the work Niix has done as a reference point. (ofc taking into account the differences in gear and whatnot)

(edited because wording)

Edited December 11, 2014 by Kulia

[Summion 2]

And is exactly what I'd do if I knew how to use simcraft!

so I look upon the work Niix has done as a reference point. (ofc taking into account the differences in gear and whatnot)

(edited because wording)

Took me a five minute video to watch and little while messing around to figure it out. Found out I'am alot closer to my simmed SV dps then my MM, but its defiantly a really cool tool to use