After Initial Burst...DPS Goes Poof!

[GloryD 0]

(Can my last topic be deleted please.)

 

So after running a Normal HM run I realized how terrible my DPS was...after that run I was disappointed and frustrated I got gear from it but I did not feel deserving of such because of my performance. Immediately after I went to look at High End Monks Logs and I see some of them using ChiEx and RJW or Chi Brew and ChiEx and RJW and even another I saw using Chi Burst instead of Chi Wave.

 

I have been looking everywhere to find a optimal rotation...my initial burst is great but after the beginning rotation my DPS just goes to crap and I find myself not keeping up with the DPS at all. My best DPS was 14k on Brackenspore seen here (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yP9Anxpk3MRF7DmK#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=10) and I just feel stuck...I'm sure Serenity isn't obsolete and its just me and not knowing where to go after my beginning burst.

 

My Armory is here : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/senjin/Gloryd/advanced

 

Now I'm confused...should I be getting used to both since both are optimal in Specific situations? like SER for the Butcher and ChiEx for Twins or Tectus? also I have questions since my DPS is in the craphole...my opener is on par but its what to do after I don't get.

 

- Do I keep Tiger Palm up anytime I can use? would it be more efficient to use it when it procs or when its about to expire

- When is it optimal to pop TEB? before FoF or chain RSK and then FoF? and is it most efficient between 10 and 20 stacks?

- Should I be spamming BOK whenever I can to keep the buff up? 

- When does Expel Harm fit in? Below half health or more?

- When is Serenity usable? and should it be used over FoF when they're both up? or vice versa?

 

I just need to know what and when is usable so I can sustain peak DPS instead of doing a burst from the start and then falling way off the DPS Charts and I would rather stick to one and just master it for peak damage all criticism is welcome and also I am having a hard time finding WW Monk specific WeakAuras or a overall visual setup for me so thank you to anyone who reads this.

Edited December 19, 2014 by GloryD

[Floll 0]

I am nearly falling asleep. And somehow I can't see your character, full link pls!

 

But some things first, maybe I will have time to get into that by tomorrow:

 

For bosses like Brackenspore, Ogron Twins, Tectus...use Storm, Earth, Fire frequently! When the big add (for Brackenspore fight) spawns, use it on the boss and go hit that add very hard and very fast. You will experience a huge DPS boost, over all. Same goes for Tectus! Make sure it is up on the 2 Shards or on 2 of the 4 smaller Shards, while hitting an enemy that is not the target of one of your ghosts.

 

Another thing that jumped to my mind (like a Flying Dragonpunchkickthingykaboom): use Serenity with Tigers Brew stacks...why would you use it with FoF? Big time channeling wasted of the 10 seconds - I could imagine using it right at the end of the timeframe could be nice, but maybe a bit hard to manage as you would most likely have to save FoF CD until...could be a DPS, I suppose!

Then there is a difference between ChiEx or no ChiEx in Tiger Palm. and if you are fighting single or multitarget - if you have mroe than one enemy (Ogron, Brackenspore etc) go on and spam ChiEx with 4 Chi...else refreshing TP and then using ChiEx with 3 Chi (4 gives AoE) seems to be the better option...

 

For the question about Serenity or FoF ... I dont know - and in the very rare occasion that you have TEB stacks and both of the CDs up at the very same time, I would say snip from the tea, then go for Serenity and use FoF with the last second of it. But not sure.

 

Expel harm ... eh ... the guide says the following: You must be missing at least twice the amount of health that Jab deals as damage, for Expel Harm to be worth using.

 

 

Sorry if I fked something up or any information is wrong - that is just what I did splendid DPS with in HM and HM HC (normally I am a healer, when I last did damage there I was at about 641 ilvl and got around 20-25k DPS for every encounter - before the 5% overall that kicked in a few hours ago, obviously)

 

I am not sure whether we are allowed to promote Addons or stuff - have you ever tried ElvUI? It is a complete UI...I played since first beta without any of those shiny interface blabla thingys...a friend just installed it while I was afk - and it is wonderful!

 

http://www.tukui.org/dl.php

 

Get the right one - ElvUI ... just extract and copy into your Addons folder; inGame follow the instruction steps (takes about 20 seconds)

Edited December 19, 2014 by Floll

[Floll 0]

I just saw your other topic: answer to that here, as it may get deleted cuz you asked for it to be deleted

 

Definitely learn both ways - fights like Tectus or even Koragh are extremely appealing when using ChiEx...Kargath or Butcher obviously aren't...

Kargath: Serenity

Butcher: Serenity

Tectus: ChiEx!!!

Brackenspore: depends...I would assume Serenity to be better (still use SEF on boss when going for the big add)

Twins: ChiEx and SEF the shit out of them

Koragh: I would assume ChiEx (for the adds, as they can easily become a wipe factor)

Imperator: Serenity

 

That is what I would assume!

[Floll 0]

I fixed the Armory thing ... US realms and stuff

 

For ChiEx try Chi Brew, for Serenity you could try Ascension...

 

In the end, 14k DPS is not at all an appealing number for your gear, we have to to sth about that

 

Be sure not to drop out of autohit range ... that is what fixed  the problem for a fellow monk of mine...some HM bosses have strange hitboxes, as it seems

Edited December 19, 2014 by Floll

[Vynstard 0]

to answer as much as i can (take this with a grain of salt but it seems to be working for me)
Answers
ChiEx for twins Serenity for everything else, tectus depends. Only fight i've taken RJW on so far is Tectus.
-Tiger palm up as much as much as possible, not sure on the procs thing but it doesn't seem to proc often enough / do enough damage to be usefull using it asap so there's no chance of overwriting it with a new proc.
-TEB is amazing, you can use it at any number of stacks, preferably when you have a trinket proc / serenity up / chi brew / any other burst including RSK + FoF.
-not sure what buff you mean. Serenity? during serenity RSK > BOK > all from my understanding.
-Expel harm i use on cd, 5 less energy than jab + small heal. ideally you shouldn't use when it will overheal, so probably use it sub 90%.
-Serenity use it asap, for pull if you're using Chi Brew: pre-pot, tiger palm, RSK, chi brew, serenity, spam.
I believe serenity is > FoF, does about the same damage + tigereye brew stacks.
 
Other stuff
SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF SEF
-Storm Earth & Fire: it's important. REALLY IMPORTANT, use it, abuse it, love it. no other class can cleave targets 30 yards apart, take advantage of that.

-Touch of Death: deal your full hp in damage for 3 chi?(or glyph it). on fights with adds that die slow enough it's great. It's a lot less important than SEF but still helps

-spell priority RSK > FoF > tiger power buff > everything else i think.

-Touch of Karma: again, use it and abuse it. Take less damage while dealing damage.

 

-TEB stuff: it doesn't matter what stacks you use it at as long as you don't cap it. Use it when a trinket procs or with other damage increasing cds. If serenity is coming off CD soon make sure you have at least 10 stacks. You can also save it for high priority adds or during cleave, for example on brackenspore it would be good to save it untill the big add comes out, toss SEF up on the add and then pop tigereye brew.

 

-CDs: in general use them as soon as they're up, Especially xuen.

 

-Defensives: Diffuse magic on the butcher? how about dampen harm or healing exlixirs.

 

i'm sure i'll think of more later

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/elune/Vynmonk/advanced

my logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/usercalendar/31670

[Vynstard 0]

User Interface

Elvui as floll mentioned is great

Mine is mostly elvui, weak auras, and comergy redux(energy bar, love it)

i have no clue if that picture worked so here's a link http://imgur.com/wzeOnGY

i'll send you a message with my b-tag and you can just ask in game if you want any of the weak auras.

[Vynstard 0]

Also, if it would help i can find some time to go through your logs fight by fight and point out stuff i notice that is wrong / could be improved although i'm not as good as the people at http://sentrytotem.com/help-me (amazing resource) i can at least point out the stuff that's really costing you damage and if you want to push your numbers higher after fixing that sentry totem is probably your best bet, or someone more experienced with logs on here.

[Floll 0]

Dampen Harm for Butcher!

 

And for Brackenspore: don't use SEF on the spawning add as it will be moved around quite a bit - use it on the boss and jump straight towards the add, move up and keep close (till it is within cleaverange of the boss for other DPS). Should most likely be better, but not in a big amount! Or any other ideas? finally, do not forget to abort SEF on the boss once the add dies...

...but now I am thinking about it: maybe it IS better using SEF on the add and just staying on Brackenspore...duh.

 

When I last played WW in HM some other monk gave me the hint to spare Serenity till I got 10 TEB stacks, but not sure about that - maybe if there is bloodlust in the beginning (+ Proccs) it would be better...there ChiBrew comes in handy, burst it, snip it, boom...

 

I really like the discussion, guys!

Edited December 19, 2014 by Floll

[Kayilled 0]

do you have any logs? its very easy to tell what you can improve on via logs

 

personally i have been using serenity for every single fight in highmaul i find that it is way more useful than chi explosion.

 

 

PLEASE READ. the main problem i have seen with other monks who arent competetive in dps has nothing to do with talents, its not using fist of fury enough. fist of fury is the most important spell and people like to wait for 10 stacks TeB before they cast it, but it is simply not viable, it must be used at or very close to on cd. if you dont use it enough you will find yourself energy starved.

 

I cant seem to figure out how to open that report you linked, what site is it for?

Edited December 19, 2014 by Kayilled

[Gnar 26]

1) yes exactly
2) refresh under 6 sec left on the buff, before serenity, if you have a proc. Never use it during serenity always refresh before popping
3) TEB should almost never be used below 10 stacks. Most importantly bever let your stacks cap at 20, spend at around 18-19. Next priority is to try to line it up with trinket procs and cooldowns (which you should also hope to line up with trinkets). If you have static trinkets then just line it up with CDs and then maybe hit it during tiger strikes or weapon enchant procs if you are using a good enchant
4)BK when you have a proc or enough chi that you won't have to wait to hit Fists or RSK assmuming one of those is close to off its cooldown. If both are on CD, BK away
5) it does more damage if u are at low health but you dont need to focus on this too much and i really dont know the exact hp number I just use it when Im low
6) use Serenity basically on cooldown and if you have 1.5 min trinkets be sure to line them up. First use should be after a palm 2x chi brew RSK and then serenity BK spam. Make sure you have 10 TEB ready for subsequent uses. As it increases your damage and you mighy cap otherwise during serenity. Dont fists during serenity, thats a loss, I usually use fists as my last serenity cast to save 3 chi

[Gnar 26]

personally i have been using serenity for every single fight in highmaul i find that it is way more useful than chi explosion.

 If you are not using Chi explosion for at least Tec and Twins, you are making a pretty large mistake.  The double dipping cleave is just too strong to pass up.

[GloryD 0]

do you have any logs? its very easy to tell what you can improve on via logs

 

personally i have been using serenity for every single fight in highmaul i find that it is way more useful than chi explosion.

 

 

PLEASE READ. the main problem i have seen with other monks who arent competetive in dps has nothing to do with talents, its not using fist of fury enough. fist of fury is the most important spell and people like to wait for 10 stacks TeB before they cast it, but it is simply not viable, it must be used at or very close to on cd. if you dont use it enough you will find yourself energy starved.

 

I cant seem to figure out how to open that report you linked, what site is it for?

Warcraft Logs I can fix the links so people can click on them and i thought you were supposed to wait for TeB to proc before casting FoF? so whenever its up use it basically?

[GloryD 0]

User Interface

Elvui as floll mentioned is great

Mine is mostly elvui, weak auras, and comergy redux(energy bar, love it)

i have no clue if that picture worked so here's a link http://imgur.com/wzeOnGY

i'll send you a message with my b-tag and you can just ask in game if you want any of the weak auras.

ill download ElvUI now and yes i will add you your weak auras are what i have been trying to do for a few days now and i haven't had success -_-

[GloryD 0]

I am nearly falling asleep. And somehow I can't see your character, full link pls!

 

But some things first, maybe I will have time to get into that by tomorrow:

 

For bosses like Brackenspore, Ogron Twins, Tectus...use Storm, Earth, Fire frequently! When the big add (for Brackenspore fight) spawns, use it on the boss and go hit that add very hard and very fast. You will experience a huge DPS boost, over all. Same goes for Tectus! Make sure it is up on the 2 Shards or on 2 of the 4 smaller Shards, while hitting an enemy that is not the target of one of your ghosts.

 

Another thing that jumped to my mind (like a Flying Dragonpunchkickthingykaboom): use Serenity with Tigers Brew stacks...why would you use it with FoF? Big time channeling wasted of the 10 seconds - I could imagine using it right at the end of the timeframe could be nice, but maybe a bit hard to manage as you would most likely have to save FoF CD until...could be a DPS, I suppose!

Then there is a difference between ChiEx or no ChiEx in Tiger Palm. and if you are fighting single or multitarget - if you have mroe than one enemy (Ogron, Brackenspore etc) go on and spam ChiEx with 4 Chi...else refreshing TP and then using ChiEx with 3 Chi (4 gives AoE) seems to be the better option...

 

For the question about Serenity or FoF ... I dont know - and in the very rare occasion that you have TEB stacks and both of the CDs up at the very same time, I would say snip from the tea, then go for Serenity and use FoF with the last second of it. But not sure.

 

Expel harm ... eh ... the guide says the following: You must be missing at least twice the amount of health that Jab deals as damage, for Expel Harm to be worth using.

 

 

Sorry if I fked something up or any information is wrong - that is just what I did splendid DPS with in HM and HM HC (normally I am a healer, when I last did damage there I was at about 641 ilvl and got around 20-25k DPS for every encounter - before the 5% overall that kicked in a few hours ago, obviously)

 

I am not sure whether we are allowed to promote Addons or stuff - have you ever tried ElvUI? It is a complete UI...I played since first beta without any of those shiny interface blabla thingys...a friend just installed it while I was afk - and it is wonderful!

 

http://www.tukui.org/dl.php

 

Get the right one - ElvUI ... just extract and copy into your Addons folder; inGame follow the instruction steps (takes about 20 seconds)

sorry for my late response but I did fix my links so it should be much easier but I haven't tried ElvUi in a while so i will get it back today

[GloryD 0]

Well i got my ElvUI installed but its pretty plain any add on suggestions and configs?

[Vynstard 0]

Here are all my weak auras: http://pastebin.com/u/vynstard

[Lothrandir 12]

Looked at the log very briefly, and a few things stood out:

 

• Very limited use of FoF - 2 casts over 6 minutes is bad. You should use it close to it's cd, so on a 6 min fight I'd expect to see some 13-14 uses of it. After TP up and RSK, it's your top prio. This is the most important thing to change!
• I don't understand why there are no Blackout Kicks over the first 70 seconds of the fight?
• TP up time is 92%, it's not bad, but can be improved - make sure you track it and re-new it with a few seconds left
• As already mentioned above SEF is your friend on Brackenspore - just before switching to big add, apply it to Brack - don't forget to dismiss it when you return to him, alternatively (easier, but an overzealous raid leader might think you're doing something wrong) stay on Brack and just SEF the big add. Ofc, if you're asked to get it down fast, you may have to just switch to it entirely, but that's not using your potential to it's fullest.
• No use of TEB for the first 100 seconds either. You hit 10 stacks at around 70 seconds, so even if you're rigidly following the 10+-stacks-only paradigm, you could've used it more? Also, keep Chi Brew recharging. Your first use is also 70 seconds in, which wasted you one stack and two chi at least.

Rgd the TP proc discussion, all the guide says (last I checked) is make sure you use it before your next Jab. After all it's 'free' damage in the sense that it wont cost you chi. Same thing as with the BoK proc.

 

Like I said, just briefly looked, but some stuff to work on. I'm at roughly the same gear as you, and typically do 20-22k on Butcher like fights (and I'm not an elite player, who hits the right button at all times), and more whenever I can cleave through FoF and use SEF. So, it's in there, you just have to dig it out

 

[andreios 1]

Dumb question to Vynstard:  what are you tracking on your SEF weakaura and why? 

[GloryD 0]

Looked at the log very briefly, and a few things stood out:

 

• Very limited use of FoF - 2 casts over 6 minutes is bad. You should use it close to it's cd, so on a 6 min fight I'd expect to see some 13-14 uses of it. After TP up and RSK, it's your top prio. This is the most important thing to change!
• I don't understand why there are no Blackout Kicks over the first 70 seconds of the fight?
• TP up time is 92%, it's not bad, but can be improved - make sure you track it and re-new it with a few seconds left
• As already mentioned above SEF is your friend on Brackenspore - just before switching to big add, apply it to Brack - don't forget to dismiss it when you return to him, alternatively (easier, but an overzealous raid leader might think you're doing something wrong) stay on Brack and just SEF the big add. Ofc, if you're asked to get it down fast, you may have to just switch to it entirely, but that's not using your potential to it's fullest.
• No use of TEB for the first 100 seconds either. You hit 10 stacks at around 70 seconds, so even if you're rigidly following the 10+-stacks-only paradigm, you could've used it more? Also, keep Chi Brew recharging. Your first use is also 70 seconds in, which wasted you one stack and two chi at least.

Rgd the TP proc discussion, all the guide says (last I checked) is make sure you use it before your next Jab. After all it's 'free' damage in the sense that it wont cost you chi. Same thing as with the BoK proc.

 

Like I said, just briefly looked, but some stuff to work on. I'm at roughly the same gear as you, and typically do 20-22k on Butcher like fights (and I'm not an elite player, who hits the right button at all times), and more whenever I can cleave through FoF and use SEF. So, it's in there, you just have to dig it out

I forgot to report Vyn took time out to analyze and help me refine everything I was doing wrong my DPS is through the roof and SEF is soooo good I was neglecting it this whole time but its amazing.

[Vynstard 0]

Dumb question to Vynstard:  what are you tracking on your SEF weakaura and why? 

The weak aura tracks how many SEF mirrors i have, flashes if i'm attacking the same target as an SEF mirror, shows the SEF mirror's hp and target. it's pretty awesome but it is a little buggy (i didn't make it, i just copied it and dragged it to the right place)