Demo - Glyph of DS while using Cataclysm

[zombiecurse 0]

Wondering what people's thoughts are on using this glyph with Cataclysm? I find it awesome for Demonbolt, but when using it with Cataclysm (thinking Tectus in particular) it seems a little unwieldy. I find it a lot easier to save up some soul fires and go through the normal burn phase when it's 20s, on a 2 min cooldown. Thoughts?

 

Edit: Realized this would leave you without a DS every 2nd Cataclysm. Maybe not a good idea.

Edited December 21, 2014 by zombiecurse

[Astynax 24]

Cataclysm doesn't benefit from mastery, meaning at best it's a moot point, and will only matter for odd-minuted fights. But yea. It literally doesn't matter.

Edit for clarity: it could matter. A little. But because soul fire gains double the benefit from mastery, and 3-4 soul fires is roughly one cata, (on one target) ignoring that, it's probably going to be really minor. And even then, it'll only matter in terms of "I want my numbers to be really big!" Because you'll push single targets slower running cool downs on cataclysm over single target spells.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Astynax

[Liquidsteel 279]

I would still use Dark Soul with Cataclysm. 

 

My max Soul Fire on the pull is about 35-40k. Cataclysm is 75-80k if it hits, 150k+ if it crits.

 

Definitely worth using Dark Soul on it.

 

If you have maths to challenge this I'd love to hear it, but meta Soul Fire doesn't hit that hard to be honest.

 

Logs of most recent Tectus kill

 

Also funny to note that max ToC crit is about the same as Soul Fire. Obviously the latter always crits, but still.

[Astynax 24]

I would still use Dark Soul with Cataclysm. 

 

My max Soul Fire on the pull is about 35-40k. Cataclysm is 75-80k if it hits, 150k+ if it crits.

 

Definitely worth using Dark Soul on it.

 

If you have maths to challenge this I'd love to hear it, but meta Soul Fire doesn't hit that hard to be honest.

 

Logs of most recent Tectus kill

 

Also funny to note that max ToC crit is about the same as Soul Fire. Obviously the latter always crits, but still.

Yeah, I'm sure there is some math to be done for it, and the more targets you can hit the more worth the synchronization is. I'm just guessing around here.

[spikeysquad 50]

I dislike the glyph of DS (I'm meaning for a cata build) as all you get is Cata and 3 SFs then you are done. With a 2 minute one you get Cata and say 7 or 8 SFs (assuming no movement) 

 

So since we use Cata a lot more now has anyone actually calculated how much I may lose if stay with a 2 minute DS and only buff every other Cata? I think that it was Liquidsteel that did some figures somewhere but I am sorry and I can't find them now. 

 

Does it perhaps depend on the fight? I mean how many targets for example. Mostly I am asking for Iron Maidens so we are talking 2-3 depending if I am on the ship or not. Turrets are more than every minute but perhaps the regular 10 second burst may help there more. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

It depends on the fight.

For Iron Maidens you want to keep Dark Soul unglyphed so you have Doomguard + pot + cata and 40s of Dark Soul to wreck Marak and any turrets ASAP. That minute is the only real hard part of the whole encounter.

For something like Thogar where you want AoE, you glyph DS because you want to unload a huge Cata and a bunch of Chaos Waves in a short period.

[Soulzar 42]

I don't use glyph with cata on Hans n Frans or Flamebender.  Use it on Darmac.  Those are only 3 mythic fights I'm using cata on currently (6/10)

 

H&F, significantly stronger opener and an important burn during the stamper phase

Flamebender, Strong opener and full 20 seconds for the two Dog phases

Darmac, regular staged aoe with cata every minute.  

 

One could very rightfully argue however that you don't need 1m darksoul on Darmac, as 40s of darksoul in final phase is strongest until farm.  Similar to Liquids reasoning on maidens.

[spikeysquad 50]

Well we killed Iron Maidens and I actually had my best result yet so thank you both. 2 minute DS just felt much better to me. 

 

So next boss naturally is Blast Furnace (heroic). We have only had a full pulls and so far the other lock (we had a co-op with another guild) and I were pretty much equal on Elementalists with them using Cata and me Dem Serv. However, be aware we only did 1 1/2 Eles before the adds overwhelmed so it's not a true picture. I was way higher on the Bellow dudes but that might of been them not actually focusing them as such.

 

I'm thinking of going cata just for the extra cleave and that should be up for each Elemental and some burst. I really cannot decide about the glyph again though. On one hand it would be super burst for Cata for every ele. If I do not glyph then I have 20 seconds of nuking rather than 10 but that will probably only be up for say 3 of the eles if I go in with the extra DS. Which is stronger?

Edited March 30, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Alkeir 1]

Wait, Cataclysm doesn't benefit from mastery? I knew that it didn't benefit from Meta, but I never knew where anyone got this information either. Where do you find this? If Cata doesn't benefit from mastery, why would you ever cast it in dark soul as a demonology warlock?

[spikeysquad 50]

It does benefit from DS but yes not the meta form. 

 

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77219/mastery-master-demonologist I think this is still in game

Edited March 30, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Alkeir 1]

Ah, I guess I shouldn't have assumed it was a flat damage buff while in meta. I guess sometimes it pays to trust the tooltips 

[Paracel 165]

Glyphed DS is that what you want at Blast Furnace. Comes up pretty much for every Elemental burst plus the scaling for CWs is insane. May hit occasional adds over there, too.

It's not the 40sec for the p3 or something like that but rather a burst damage available every minute on p2, just like what you have with glyph.

 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Paracel

[spikeysquad 50]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I kinda guessed I wanted the glyph. I'm not sure if it's the faster pace or what but it just doesn't sit well with me for Cata even though I had no problems with it for DB. Anyhow, we should have lotssssssssssss of Blast wipes so maybe I'll see the light by the end. 

 

So I have read the other tips like don't use CDs on the transition to phase 2, DoT up stuff before the primals, get fury etc. So when the primals come alive, DS, Cata in meta if Primal will still last for one Doom tick otherwise caster Cata (?), CWs, SF.

 

So with dynamic updating If I pre-dot then primals before the shield is down it will start damaging when we can kill them? However, I imagine t's not worth putting the same dot on that I will with Cata. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by spikeysquad