Drakkmur 0 Report post Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) I was looking at the rankings in the feral guide for trinkets and disagree with ranking Lucky Double Sided Coin #2 tied with stage 3 Skull of War. Here is why: My 653 ilevel feral (Drakkmur US-Area 52) has the following stat weights based on simulationcraft (I use lunar inspiration for my feral but the stat weights between lunar inspiration and bloodtalons for my feral are almost identical except mastery, which is not on any of the trinkets I discuss): Agility: 4.6 Crit: 1.82 Multistrike: 1.82 Lucky Double Sided Coin 147 Crit Proc of 1467 agility 20 second duration with 120 second cd = 16.7% uptime Value: (147 * 1.82) + (4.6 * 1467 * .167) = 1,395 Skull of War (Stage 2 of 3) 196 Agility Proc of 1604 crit with 16.7% uptime Value: (196 * 4.6) + (1604 * .167 * 1.82) = 1,389 Scales of Doom (655 normal mode version) 216 Agility Proc of 1743 multistrike with 16.7% uptime Value: (216 * 4.6) + (1743 * .167 * 1.82) = 1523 Based on my analysis, Lucky Double Sided Coin is equivalent to stage 2 Skull of War and inferior to Stage 3 Skull of War. More surprisingly, it is inferior to the 655 normal mode version of Scales of Doom and significantly weaker than the heroic or mythic versions of this trinket. Lucky Double Sided Coin appears to be under budget on crit for a 665 ilevel trinket and therefore is a middle of the road trinket this tier. Edited December 23, 2014 by Drakkmur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bradykin 16 Report post Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) I was looking at the rankings in the feral guide for trinkets and disagree with ranking Lucky Double Sided Coin #2 tied with stage 3 Skull of War. Here is why: My 653 ilevel feral (Drakkmur US-Area 52) has the following stat weights based on simulationcraft (I use lunar inspiration for my feral but the stat weights between lunar inspiration and bloodtalons for my feral are almost identical except mastery, which is not on any of the trinkets I discuss): Agility: 4.6 Crit: 1.82 Multistrike: 1.82 Lucky Double Sided Coin 147 Crit Proc of 1467 agility 20 second duration with 120 second cd = 16.7% uptime Value: (147 * 1.82) + (4.6 * 1467 * .167) = 1,395 Skull of War (Stage 2 of 3) 196 Agility Proc of 1604 crit with 16.7% uptime Value: (196 * 4.6) + (1604 * .167 * 1.82) = 1,389 Scales of Doom (655 normal mode version) 216 Agility Proc of 1743 multistrike with 16.7% uptime Value: (216 * 4.6) + (1743 * .167 * 1.82) = 1523 Based on my analysis, Lucky Double Sided Coin is equivalent to stage 2 Skull of War and inferior to Stage 3 Skull of War. More surprisingly, it is inferior to the 655 normal mode version of Scales of Doom and significantly weaker than the heroic or mythic versions of this trinket. Lucky Double Sided Coin appears to be under budget on crit for a 655 ilevel trinket and therefore is a middle of the road trinket this tier. This is a very,very basic way of looking at it. Lucky coin's strength comes from being on use, which means yes, it is slightly under budget numerically. However, we are a 3minute cooldown cycle class, meaning a LOT of our damage happens in the 30 second phase we have cooldowns running. Properly timing a fight to line up as many berserks as possible with the coin, without losing an activation of the coin, is the cornerstone of effectively dpsing with it. Skull of War is also an awesome trinket, and I would say is very, very slightly weaker in 670 form (I use both of them) but it can't be held when appropriate, or used when optimal. You can plan around it going off pretty reliably every 2 minutes, but don't have the amount of control that you do over the coin. Also, of course your last talent choice will affect these bearings. Crit gives more combo points, meaning more bloodtalons procs. This raises the value of crit with Bloodtalons, which doesn't care about multistrike. Crit > Multistrike is a common fact for ferals, something about your simming is way off. Edited December 23, 2014 by Bradykin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drakkmur 0 Report post Posted December 23, 2014 When I changed my sim to Elite player skill, my stat weights for BloodTalons are 2.45 for crit and 2.15 for multistrike. I am curious, how to you avoid losing an activation of the coin considering it is a 2 minute CD while Berserk is a 3 minute CD? The only way I can see this happening is for fights that last 3-4 minutes. Any other fight durations, you lose at least one activation and you can lose two activations for fights between 8-9 minutes, fights between 10-12 minutes and all fights over 12 minutes assuming you delay to use with Berserk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bradykin 16 Report post Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) When I changed my sim to Elite player skill, my stat weights for BloodTalons are 2.45 for crit and 2.15 for multistrike. I am curious, how to you avoid losing an activation of the coin considering it is a 2 minute CD while Berserk is a 3 minute CD? The only way I can see this happening is for fights that last 3-4 minutes. Any other fight durations, you lose at least one activation and you can lose two activations for fights between 8-9 minutes, fights between 10-12 minutes and all fights over 12 minutes assuming you delay to use with Berserk. I'll give a few examples. Butcher is a 5 minute fight. Use Trinket+cooldowns at 0 minutes, Trinket at 2 minutes, HOLD your cooldowns, and use everything together at 4 minutes. Brackenspore is a 10 minute enrage. Let's say you are on mythic and will use all 10 minutes. Trinket+Cooldowns at 0 minutes, trinket at 2 minutes, cooldowns at 3 minutes, trinket at 4 minutes, and everything together at 6 minutes, then HOLD everything until 9 minutes since you won't get another use of lucky coin until 10 minutes when boss enrages. Imperator's phases tend to last 3-4 minutes, with 1 minute transitions. Use everything at 0 minutes, lucky coin at 2 minutes, HOLD cooldowns for transition when they matter and coin will probably be back up. Repeat for rest of fight. You never want to lose an activation of either cooldowns or trinket to align them, barring a fight mechanic that boosts damage taken to the boss that modifies this. But you want to plan every fight out beforehand and know when and where you want to use your cooldowns. I've mapped out every fight in Highmaul for cooldowns by now, so feel free to ask if you want assistance with a specific encounter. Edited December 23, 2014 by Bradykin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paloro 39 Report post Posted December 23, 2014 BiS trinkets will change with your gear. The lists that are generated assume BiS gear, therefore are not accurate with your current set-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
