Neith 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2014 First off I just want to say how happy I am with the state of Hunters at the moment. It seems like everyday there is something new being learned that are bringing all the specs closer and closer together, which is something Blizzard should strive to do for all classes. Anyway, on to my questions. Since making the switch to Survival I've found myself focus starved all the time. I don't know if this is something I'm doing wrong, or it's just the state of the spec right now. Basically what happens after my initial opener, is I'm using Cobra Shot just enough to use my next shot (barring ToTH/LnL procs of course), which leads me to believe I'm delaying my shots too much. Is this just bad focus management on my part? Is there a Focus "threshold" so to speak that we should be aiming to stay at or around? I'm loving the spec, but I'm pretty new to it so not exactly sure that I'm doing it correctly. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F8qPyDAx2MzLX9p3#type=summary&fight=3 Here are the only logs I have on a heroic boss fight, and also one of the only times I haven't been on any kind of mechanic duty. They're all wipes in a pug group with about 300ms ping, but I feel like I played ok barring the circumstances. If anyone cares to have a look, I'd sure appreciate any help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iridar 80 Report post Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) I have noticed this focus starvation too. In case of Survival, no, you should not try to hover around certain focus level. The reason for this is that we constantly use in our rotation shots with all kinds of focus cost, from 0 for Explosive trap to 60 for Barrage, while the Hunter himself has only a focus cap of 100. Hovering around certain focus level is not only very hard in these circumstances, but also pointless, since there are no "signature shots" to be used on cooldown here. Explosive Shot is very cheap, so you don't have to specially prepare for it, and Barrage and Black Arrow have reasonably long cooldowns, so you should use that time to prepare for them. You can make your life a bit easier by changing your rotation a bit. 1. Don't be in a rush to spend your TotH proc. Marksmanship requires 6-7 seconds to spend that proc, you only need 3, so you're not in a hurry. I find the focus starvation to not be so apparent when I delay spending TotH procs until last possible seconds, to make sure I'm not delaying higher priority shots because of that. Of course, you should monitor Serpent Sting on your target. The less time the DoT has remaning, the higher priority TotH'ed Arcane Shot becomes. EDIT: To rephrase this part: if you spend TotH proc right away, you're likely to make yourself focus starved, which will result in delaying higher priority shots. Also, because Arcane Shot applies Serpent Sting, it's better to spread out your TotH'ed Arcane Shots a bit, to ensure a more optimal uptime on the DoT. If you spend it right away, it's possible that later you'll need to waste focus on reapplying Serpent Sting without TotH, which is also likely to focus starve you. 2. Incorporate Explosive Trap in your rotation (if you haven't already, I didn't check the logs). Even when used on cooldown it's merely 3-5% of overall DPS. So I think the way you should use it is to "bridge the gap". Say, you have 35 focus, no TotH proc, and Explosive Shot comes off cooldown in one second. In this case, if you use Cobra Shot, you will delay Explosive Shot. If you use Arcane Shot, you won't have enough focus for Explosive Shot. It's a perfect time to use Explosive Trap. Remember, that you regen 4-5 focus per second passively. Times when you're a few focus points short to cast a priority ability is also a great time to use Explosive Trap. You also should use it when there are no other priority abilities available, and you don't need more focus from Cobra to prepare for the future. Edited December 26, 2014 by Iridar 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neith 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2014 Thanks, that helps a lot. More often than not I only pre-trap, then forget about it halfway through the encounter. 3-5% does seem like quite a bit, considering I sim for 23.6k and am pulling around 23k on a pretty regular basis. I feel small changes such as the ones you mentioned may help me get closer and closer to my maximum potential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marth 1 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 HI! I found very helpful your suggestion about the optimization of surv rotation and i'd like to ask you somenthing more about it in multi target situations like tectus or brackenspore or twin ogron and in particular about the use of barrage, if you use it and if yes how you use it. When i use barrage often it's a mess to manage focus and many times i have to chose if use Barrage and delaying black arrow and explosive shot or use Barrage really few time. As Blood elf arcane torrent sometimes help me but it's just one time every two minutes. Thx in advance for the help P.S. sorry if my english is not perfect, i write from Italy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syncness 4 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I simmed explosive and non explosive for my char, only netted me 0.5% DPS gain of 160 DPS. Surprisingly, I removed Barrage from the action list for ST and yielded higher DPS. Edited December 27, 2014 by Syncness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iridar 80 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I simmed explosive and non explosive for my char, only netted me 0.5% DPS gain of 160 DPS. Surprisingly, I removed Barrage from the action list for ST and yielded higher DPS. Yeah, things like talent choices and rotational priority is something that everyone should sim for their own gear. I like to use this list: copy=Steady_AMoC_None_FS talents=0001102 copy=Steady_AMoC_None_LW talents=0001103 copy=Steady_AMoC_GT_EM talents=0001111 copy=Steady_AMoC_GT_FS talents=0001112 copy=Steady_AMoC_GT_LW talents=0001113 copy=Steady_AMoC_PS_EM talents=0001121 copy=Steady_AMoC_PS_FS talents=0001122 copy=Steady_AMoC_PS_LW talents=0001123 copy=Steady_AMoC_Barr_EM talents=0001131 copy=Steady_AMoC_Barr_FS talents=0001132 copy=Steady_AMoC_Barr_LW talents=0001133 copy=Steady_BS_None_EM talents=0001201 copy=Steady_BS_None_FS talents=0001202 copy=Steady_BS_None_LW talents=0001203 copy=Steady_BS_GT_EM talents=0001211 copy=Steady_BS_GT_FS talents=0001212 copy=Steady_BS_GT_LW talents=0001213 copy=Steady_BS_PS_EM talents=0001221 copy=Steady_BS_PS_FS talents=0001222 copy=Steady_BS_PS_LW talents=0001223 copy=Steady_BS_Barr_EM talents=0001231 copy=Steady_BS_Barr_FS talents=0001232 copy=Steady_BS_Barr_LW talents=0001233 copy=Steady_Stamp_None_EM talents=0001301 copy=Steady_Stamp_None_FS talents=0001302 copy=Steady_Stamp_None_LW talents=0001303 copy=Steady_Stamp_GT_EM talents=0001311 copy=Steady_Stamp_GT_FS talents=0001312 copy=Steady_Stamp_GT_LW talents=0001313 copy=Steady_Stamp_PS_EM talents=0001321 copy=Steady_Stamp_PS_FS talents=0001322 copy=Steady_Stamp_PS_LW talents=0001323 copy=Steady_Stamp_Barr_EM talents=0001331 copy=Steady_Stamp_Barr_FS talents=0001332 copy=Steady_Stamp_Barr_LW talents=0001333 copy=DB_AMoC_None_EM talents=0002101 copy=DB_AMoC_None_FS talents=0002102 copy=DB_AMoC_None_LW talents=0002103 copy=DB_AMoC_GT_EM talents=0002111 copy=DB_AMoC_GT_FS talents=0002112 copy=DB_AMoC_GT_LW talents=0002113 copy=DB_AMoC_PS_EM talents=0002121 copy=DB_AMoC_PS_FS talents=0002122 copy=DB_AMoC_PS_LW talents=0002123 copy=DB_AMoC_Barr_EM talents=0002131 copy=DB_AMoC_Barr_FS talents=0002132 copy=DB_AMoC_Barr_LW talents=0002133 copy=DB_BS_None_EM talents=0002201 copy=DB_BS_None_FS talents=0002202 copy=DB_BS_None_LW talents=0002203 copy=DB_BS_GT_EM talents=0002211 copy=DB_BS_GT_FS talents=0002212 copy=DB_BS_GT_LW talents=0002213 copy=DB_BS_PS_EM talents=0002221 copy=DB_BS_PS_FS talents=0002222 copy=DB_BS_PS_LW talents=0002223 copy=DB_BS_Barr_EM talents=0002231 copy=DB_BS_Barr_FS talents=0002232 copy=DB_BS_Barr_LW talents=0002233 copy=DB_Stamp_None_EM talents=0002301 copy=DB_Stamp_None_FS talents=0002302 copy=DB_Stamp_None_LW talents=0002303 copy=DB_Stamp_GT_EM talents=0002311 copy=DB_Stamp_GT_FS talents=0002312 copy=DB_Stamp_GT_LW talents=0002313 copy=DB_Stamp_PS_EM talents=0002321 copy=DB_Stamp_PS_FS talents=0002322 copy=DB_Stamp_PS_LW talents=0002323 copy=DB_Stamp_Barr_EM talents=0002331 copy=DB_Stamp_Barr_FS talents=0002332 copy=DB_Stamp_Barr_LW talents=0002333 copy=TotH_AMoC_None_EM talents=0003101 copy=TotH_AMoC_None_FS talents=0003102 copy=TotH_AMoC_None_LW talents=0003103 copy=TotH_AMoC_GT_EM talents=0003111 copy=TotH_AMoC_GT_FS talents=0003112 copy=TotH_AMoC_GT_LW talents=0003113 copy=TotH_AMoC_PS_EM talents=0003121 copy=TotH_AMoC_PS_FS talents=0003122 copy=TotH_AMoC_PS_LW talents=0003123 copy=TotH_AMoC_Barr_EM talents=0003131 copy=TotH_AMoC_Barr_FS talents=0003132 copy=TotH_AMoC_Barr_LW talents=0003133 copy=TotH_BS_None_EM talents=0003201 copy=TotH_BS_None_FS talents=0003202 copy=TotH_BS_None_LW talents=0003203 copy=TotH_BS_GT_EM talents=0003211 copy=TotH_BS_GT_FS talents=0003212 copy=TotH_BS_GT_LW talents=0003213 copy=TotH_BS_PS_EM talents=0003221 copy=TotH_BS_PS_FS talents=0003222 copy=TotH_BS_PS_LW talents=0003223 copy=TotH_BS_Barr_EM talents=0003231 copy=TotH_BS_Barr_FS talents=0003232 copy=TotH_BS_Barr_LW talents=0003233 copy=TotH_Stamp_None_EM talents=0003301 copy=TotH_Stamp_None_FS talents=0003302 copy=TotH_Stamp_None_LW talents=0003303 copy=TotH_Stamp_GT_EM talents=0003311 copy=TotH_Stamp_GT_FS talents=0003312 copy=TotH_Stamp_GT_LW talents=0003313 copy=TotH_Stamp_PS_EM talents=0003321 copy=TotH_Stamp_PS_FS talents=0003322 copy=TotH_Stamp_PS_LW talents=0003323 copy=TotH_Stamp_Barr_EM talents=0003331 copy=TotH_Stamp_Barr_FS talents=0003332 copy=TotH_Stamp_Barr_LW talents=0003333 Basically, paste this after your simcraft profile, and simcraft will test all talent combinations, including the ones completely without Barrage / GT on single target. As for Explosive Trap - yes, it's supposed to be a tiny DPS gain. The point is not to dish out more DPS via Trap itself, but use the Trap to smoothen the rotation when you have an empty GCD, and using other abilities would be suboptimal. I don't think simcraft can even be used to test that. It would probably require a very precise tuning of action priority list, not something I'd care to do. I found very helpful your suggestion about the optimization of surv rotation and i'd like to ask you somenthing more about it in multi target situations like tectus or brackenspore or twin ogron and in particular about the use of barrage, if you use it and if yes how you use it. When i use barrage often it's a mess to manage focus and many times i have to chose if use Barrage and delaying black arrow and explosive shot or use Barrage really few time. As Blood elf arcane torrent sometimes help me but it's just one time every two minutes. Yes, I use Barrage, and I especially make a point of it in multi-target situations like Ogrons and Tectus. Currently, SV is really focus starved, so against single target I don't even try using Barrage on cooldown. I use it when I have spare focus, time and every other priority (Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, Serpent Sting) has been dealt with. But when Barrage hits 2+ targets, its priority rises. Basically, it works like this: while delaying Explosive Shot / Black Arrow because of Barrage is undesirable, it's not that big of a deal when said Barrage will do a lot of damage. The more targets the Barrage will hit, the less DPS you will lose by delaying ES / BA, if any. In 2 target situations I try my best to keep Serpent Sting rolling on both targets. For that I use Arcane Shot mouseover macro, and a TellMeWhen icon that informs me whether my mouseover target has Serpent Sting on it. Per Nnx's advice, I use Multi-Shot to keep Serpent Sting rolling on 3 targets, at 4+ targets Multi Shot becomes a focus dump replacing Arcane Shot, and at 6+ or something I just stop using Explosive Shot and Barrage altogether and just spam Multi Shot. Edited December 27, 2014 by Iridar 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marth 1 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) Thx for the help, tomorrow i will try this way I think this forum is really great! This is my second post on it but i read it since patch 6.0 and it helped me a lot. I have another question about rotation, do u think is better to use stampede or a murder of crows? I thought that in fights with adds that have to be focused (like brakenspore's adds or warmages in Imperator's fight) maybe it's better to use amoc cause you can use it many times just casting it when your target is about to die in less than 15 seconds and so amoc's cd will be refreshed and ready to be used again. what do you think? In fight with just one target or with many adds that have to die with no priority, i really don't know what is better. Edited December 27, 2014 by Marth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
