Askmrrobot or Wowreforge

[Whatcher 0]

Begining of a new xpac, so I feel like a nub again, and so will ask a nub question. You suggest title sights for helping with gear ench/reforge. After re-evaluating using askmrrobot, I was currious and went to wowreforge, both seem to be using different stat weights, which is the preferred currently? And just to be certain it's clear, yes it's for my paladin.

Edit: just to muddy the waters even more I had been using Reforge Lite, and it also has a slightly different weight'ing but closer to askmrrobot's, than wowreforger.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Damien

[Dementii 10]

Whatcher, I think people would like to know your spec too. Stat weights differ when you are holy or retribution for example.

[Damien 1,514]

We discuss our stat priorities with Ask Mr. Robot and we literally spend hours doing so. They go to great lengths to make sure that their stat priorities are correct, so you can trust them on that ;)

[Kushiel 0]

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

[Vlad 411]

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

[mrx 0]

i dont know if this stat prio is good but i am using this Strength > Hit > Expertise > Haste > Crit >mastery

using reforgelite.

Edited November 8, 2012 by mrx

[Kushiel 0]

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

I test my dps on the training dummies. AMR is saying to reforge to haste but RFL is saying mastery. I understand that robot takes into account raid buffs but either way i shouldn't have dropped dps going from mastery to haste as my priority stat (after hit and exp). It is not that big of a deal concidering ret is an off spec but it just caught my eye and i decided to ask.

[Dementii 10]

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

[Kushiel 0]

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

No the stat weights are different on the two. AMR is weighted for haste and atm RFL is weighted for mastery. I know i can adjust the weights but am unsure what to put, as I have never really messed with that stuff and the way RFL is set up is kind of confussing for me.

I thoroughly believe haste is best atm for ret due to a lower gcd and lower cd on spells. I am not sure why I had the drop in dps but my guess would be because almost all the gear anymore is coming mastery heavy which makes it very hard to get the haste rating at lower ilvl gear (468).

[Vlad 411]

I cannot speak to the value of ReforgeLite's stat weights, because I have no idea whatsoever how they are obtained.

One thing I can think of as to why Haste might not be giving you the results you should get is that you aren't taking full advantage of it, that is to say that you're wasting some of it by not using your abilities on cooldown.

[Vladamyr 169]

The stat weights will always vary,this is due to the complex interaction of stats. As you get more stacked in one stat, for ret, the others start to gain in importance (depending upon the ratio). You can only know your own actual values by running sims. Simulationcraft and Exemplar's spreadsheet (EJ forums) are the 2 most common sims at this time.

Priority remains:

Hit to cap > Strength > Expertise to cap > Haste > Mastery > Crit

Those values however are based on BiS gear. If you are in pre-raid gear the stat priority can fluctuate some.

You should not see a major fluctuation in dps however if you are properly following the priority with good execution. The links below demonstrate how comfortable the Upper Level theorycrafters are with this priority.

https://www.icy-veins.com/retribution-paladin-wow-pve-dps-statistics-priority-reforging

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret_5_0_4_mop_retribution_concordance_retcon_panda_ing_dps_meters/

http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11365-MoP-Retribution-Paladin-Guide

If you are not interested in simming results specifically for your character, my recommendation would be to follow http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear and it will not guide you far from wrong.