Damien 1,514 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 This thread is for comments about our Imperial Vizier Zor'lok encounter guide. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krazyito 521 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.wowhead.com/npc=66791/imperial-vizier-zorlok#encounter According to this 25 man can only have 7 people in the force and nerve shield. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 411 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.wowhead.c...orlok#encounter According to this 25 man can only have 7 people in the force and nerve shield. That appears to apply to Heroic mode (from the way I am reading it). But it does mention a limit of 9 per zone in 25-man Normal, which is still worth adding to the guide. It's also the same in the Dungeon Journal now (though it was not always there, so it must have been changed recently). Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Azcim Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Hello, I noticed that for last panda's strategies there is nothing about a good setup . So :: How many healer? 2 or 3? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damien 1,514 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 Hello, I noticed that for last panda's strategies there is nothing about a good setup . So :: How many healer? 2 or 3? There is actually. Make sure to expand the "General Information" section ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 411 Report post Posted October 30, 2012 I'd also add that whenever we mention 2-3 healers, the implication is always more or less the same. Namely, that the encounter should be completed with 3 healers in general, but that experienced/skilled raids can complete it 2 healers, and may get better results when doing so. In other words, if you prefer, if you have two really good healers with good gear, then the encounter will be easier if you use only 2 healers, because the raid's DPS will be much higher (from using 6 DPS players instead of just 5). Higher raid DPS makes a huge difference and makes many otherwise problematic mechanics easier to deal with. /rant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krazyito 521 Report post Posted October 31, 2012 That appears to apply to Heroic mode (from the way I am reading it). But it does mention a limit of 9 per zone in 25-man Normal, which is still worth adding to the guide. It's also the same in the Dungeon Journal now (though it was not always there, so it must have been changed recently). Thanks! Yep. Sorry about that. I had a quick glance while at work when I was making my own condensed guide for my guild and I saw both 9 and 7, but thought the MMOC guide I got 9 from was out of date. I confused my guild a little bit when I got into the raid today, but it was quickly fixed by a dungeon journal look up. I should have done that from the beginning lol. >.> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted November 1, 2012 Enrage timer is listed on guide at 6 minutes. This is incorrect. He enraged on us at 10:15 last night. Advise for heavy healing cooldowns (Totem of Healing, Tranquility, etc.) for Force and Verve. It does 110k damage per second for 10 seconds unprotected and about 65k per second with protection. Even with protection, entire raid will be taking 650k+ damage in 10 seconds. I heavily advise having enough DPS to only have two Force and Verves. Your healers won't have an answer for the third one, and it's a good indicator of how bad you will fail in Phase 2 if you lack the DPS to do this. Force and Verve will cause him to spawn 3 shields. One will ALWAYS be right under him, one will ALWAYS be at max melee range, and one will ALWAYS be at range. He will spawn them in this order: on him, max melee range, range. Dedicate teams for each bubble and things get drastically easier. For example, we had our Tank, 2 melee, and our Druid healer stand in the center shield, our Resto Shaman, Hunter, and other two melee in the middle shield and myself and our Holy Paladin in the last shield. Convert ALWAYS affects 2 players, not sometimes. Dungeon Journal is wrong. Phase 2 sucks. He will mind-control 2 of your healers and then begin Force and Verve. Enjoy the pain and suffering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 411 Report post Posted November 1, 2012 Enrage timer is listed on guide at 6 minutes. This is incorrect. He enraged on us at 10:15 last night. Advise for heavy healing cooldowns (Totem of Healing, Tranquility, etc.) for Force and Verve. It does 110k damage per second for 10 seconds unprotected and about 65k per second with protection. Even with protection, entire raid will be taking 650k+ damage in 10 seconds. I heavily advise having enough DPS to only have two Force and Verves. Your healers won't have an answer for the third one, and it's a good indicator of how bad you will fail in Phase 2 if you lack the DPS to do this. Force and Verve will cause him to spawn 3 shields. One will ALWAYS be right under him, one will ALWAYS be at max melee range, and one will ALWAYS be at range. He will spawn them in this order: on him, max melee range, range. Dedicate teams for each bubble and things get drastically easier. For example, we had our Tank, 2 melee, and our Druid healer stand in the center shield, our Resto Shaman, Hunter, and other two melee in the middle shield and myself and our Holy Paladin in the last shield. Convert ALWAYS affects 2 players, not sometimes. Dungeon Journal is wrong. Phase 2 sucks. He will mind-control 2 of your healers and then begin Force and Verve. Enjoy the pain and suffering. I've only done the fight in 25-man, but I can respond to some of these. The enrage does indeed seem not to be 6 minutes. I went with the warning that boss mods were providing for this, which is obviously incorrect. It also seemed rather sensible, as we had some wipes at the 6 minute mark with the boss at 20% health, where the attempt had been poor overall (DPS dying early etc), so it seemed/seems entirely feasible that he would wipe at 6 minutes. I'll change it to probably 10 minutes or something along those lines. You are right, Force and Verve is pretty brutal. The shields seemed to spawn following the pattern you described. Convert was consistently affecting 5 players for us. I was watching videos of live kills where it was only affecting 1 player on 10-man, so coupled with the Dungeon Journal I went with that. It seems much more logical that it would be 2 in 10-man, though. I'll check to see if I can find any more proof of only 1 played being converted in 10-man. Phase 2 was actually not bad for us. With more room to spread, and what felt like very few Converts, it was quite enjoyable, much more so than the very nasty Force and Verve platform. To that I will add that the boss was extremely buggy for us. For example, we managed to DPS him to 80% before a second cast of Force and Verve went off, and he ended up staying on the Force and Verve platform all the way to 65% health! So he only spent 5% on the Attenuation platform. He also seems to regularly enter Phase Two earlier than he should (43-44%). And regarding the Attenuation (and I'll add this to the guide): the disks actually bounce back when they reach the edges of the room, and come back towards the boss for a while before disappearing. I found that it's easy to avoid them by running in a circle around the boss, at mid-range from him (so the ones bouncing back don't hit you). You can stop/stagger your movement to get casts off, and his hitbox is massive enough to make it feasible for melee players. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krazyito 521 Report post Posted November 1, 2012 The discs also split after some distance that it travels when strafing in a circle I found that I would often get a disc come straight for me right when it split.. So if you are strafing in a circle you need to really be careful and move closer to the boss by strafing through lines to get into a new lane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted November 1, 2012 We were carrying two rather lackluster DPS, so I'm pushing for their performance to increase. This may have attributed to how I saw the enrage. I think we saw the enrage because only me, my resto Shaman, and my Blood DK survived for 2 minutes and saw him turn big and red. When that attempt ended, DBM alerted me that the attempt lasted 10 minutes and 21 seconds. There are multiple reports on World of Logs of 6 applications of Conversion happening in 10 man raiding which lines up with what we had (3 MC phases on that platform). He did, indeed, move from the last platform at 45% twice on us giving us more to do with his soft enrage. The discs seem to have some weird ass spiral type pattern. If you look, you can just strafe around him and never even get hit if you're doing this about 5-10 yards from the boss. Phase 2 was brutal for us because it went like this: Discs --> Force and Verve --> Discs --> Force and Verve --> MC -->Force and Verve --> Discs The real issue here was the RNG of the MC. If two healers got the MC, we had about 3 seconds to break people out and then prepare immediately for the massive damage. I think 25 man has it less stressful here because the odds of it picking all 4-5 of your 5-7 healers is quite low. I was unable to contribute as Affliction because the last thing I wanted on my teammates was Unstable Affliction or any DoTs for that matter. I'm going back in Monday for more attempts as Destruction so I can Chaos Bolt both MC'd people to instantly break them out. That MC to F&V can S my D. I think you can negate this by having good DPS burn through the boss before the MC. I think a good pattern would be: 1st F&V = 1 massive healer CD (Tranq, Hymn, Healing Totem, Pally Guardian) 2nd F&V = Bloodlust 3rd F&V = 1 massive healer CD + personal CDs The 3rd F&V is where we fell apart because of people failing at dodging discs or MC people being kicked out of MC but having 40-20% health and then dying to the quick to follow F&V. One thing I'm thinking about doing is having people not be healed over 50% after a F&V in P2. I know that might blow some people's minds, but it would GREATLY reduce the time spent breaking people out of mind control. After the MC, you could push healing. Staggered heals may be the answer, similarly to progression on Anub'arak in Trial of the Crusader. What I'm picturing for the Conversion platform and in P2 is everyone stacks behind the MT. Yeah, melee might whine about their DPS, but why do we care about melee anyways? Leave everyone at 35-40% of their max HP. Exhale will be instantly intercepted by the MT creating no problems and MC should be either instantly broken or not even applied. I think this eradicates and entire mechanic and it can be executed well in phase 2 to really increase uptime on the boss and reduce the RNG of losing healers before F&V. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Neo Report post Posted November 1, 2012 Yea the discs move in a splashing spiral, very easy to avoid =D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hinnya Report post Posted November 1, 2012 Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I was converted during the fight and the boss immediately made me use my Intimidating Shout, fearing our tank out into the middle of the room. We found it very wise after that attempt to use fears and other abilities like that on CD whenever there's a chance of him MCing us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 411 Report post Posted November 1, 2012 I've made a few updates to the guide, they should go live in a few hours. Mostly based on the comments here. Thanks, and keep it up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelTheys 10 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 There are 3things i noticed, or these things are because of bugs i can't tell you about. The only thing i can say is that our fight seemed bugged a lot compared to others. Anyway i yust wanted to share them anyway. The first thing i noticed is that the disc that comes out of him from the ability Attenuation are at around 25-35y away from the boss seems to split. If this split was intensionally i'm not 100% sure about but at least some of us died due the fact they avoided the one disc and then been hit instantly ltr by his splitted version. The amount of dmg the splitted version does i'm not sure about due the fact i got hit by so much badly enough i didn't noticed. The second thing i noticed and i'm quite sure that it's due bug issues but still wanted to share is that the boss with us dared to stay a few extra % on the same platfrom. This isn't bad on the platform with the MC and the discs but on the one with the bubbles i can be cause some issues. Due the dmg is still quite high a sec even under neath the bubbles. The third and last thing i noticed is that the MC ppl took quite longer to get out of the MC then 50% but this is yust a warning and normally shouldn't happen but it can be that you have a delay so you'll have to watch a bit out for this. We killed a MC player due it seemed he never went out of it. I hope these things will help you a bit out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krazyito 521 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 The discs also split after some distance that it travels when strafing in a circle I found that I would often get a disc come straight for me right when it split.. So if you are strafing in a circle you need to really be careful and move closer to the boss by strafing through lines to get into a new lane. I noted this before. It is not a bug, they are suppose to split. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stasis 36 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Are they splitting, or just bouncing off an existing disc and changing tragectory? They definitely bounce off the edges of the platform and come back in at crazy angles. I find the front of the platform to be the most predictable place to stand. I was assuming that they were bouncing off an 'invisible' boundry in the final stage, or at the very least bouncing off each other. I personally find it easiest to stand in place and just side-step the discs, generally you're only moving a yard or two sideways and have plenty of time to stand still and DPS (useful for a caster). Edited November 2, 2012 by Stasis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krazyito 521 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Are they splitting, or just bouncing off an existing disc and changing tragectory?The split for sure. and they don't bounce off existing discs, only off the wall from what I could tell. Edited November 2, 2012 by krazyito65 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrounger 3 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Just to add whats mostly said already: - 2 mind controls in 10m for us yesterday - easiest way to avoid the discs (for us) was to be in max melee range (~6yards) and just see what direction the discs appear, then simply move around him. Melee can continue to attack without any lost time. Other than that we also faced some strange timings with the phase-changes. Ah, one additional thing: Warlock portals between plattforms are quite nice, just remember to not let your tank take this shortcut, not being on the threat table for 8 seconds isnt the best idea ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peelyon 416 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Yep just to confirm majority of the above. We went in for our first look last night (with a fairly weakened raid group). We dont have a druid in group so no roar to speed us between the platform but a few priest feathers for the tank and warlock portal for the majority of the group made life not too bad shifting between platforms. Not sure if it could be an idea to use for some other groups but we started the encounter stood on the Force and Verve platform. If we pulled from the middle then watched to wait where he went we found the majority of our group fairly low on health and had to top up a fair bit. The force and verve platform is by far the most healing intensive from what I understood last night so by starting on that platform it was a 1/3 chance that we didnt take any damage at the start of the raid (so the healers could lol dps a tiny bit) and if it was another platform then it was a quick run to one of the other ones, where there is little to no damage expected early on to heal. Better to have a 1/3 chance of not taking any damage I guess and even if he goes to Attenuation platform (opposite) it wasnt much more damage taken than starting in the middle and was easily healed up before the first channel. I found standing on the little "stepped" areas of the attenuation platform just helped me see the discs a little better, and I tried to stay at medium range and just strafe left and right to avoid. We had a lot of people getting hit from "bounce backs" from the wall, can anyone confirm that if you stand near the entrance to the platform that they just move into the room or do they bounce back there as well? To be honest I didnt find it that difficult, but some of our raiders movement was really bad! Going back in there Monday night with a more focused group - really enjoyed the fight though, will keep us going a fair while! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Necroshammy Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Before pull ...boss slowly moves from side to side, it looks like when tank use taunt .. boss choose that platform which is currently nearest to him .. middle mc platform is always last .. Cant confirm this but .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 411 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Before pull ...boss slowly moves from side to side, it looks like when tank use taunt .. boss choose that platform which is currently nearest to him .. middle mc platform is always last .. Cant confirm this but .. I am not saying you aren't right, but I noticed complete randomness in the order of the platforms (every combination happened), even though some seemed more likely than others (probably just the usual RNG). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelTheys 10 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 I am not saying you aren't right, but I noticed complete randomness in the order of the platforms (every combination happened), even though some seemed more likely than others (probably just the usual RNG). I agree with Vlad also i noticed with us he dares to pick the left platfrom a lot more then the right one (he never went to the one in the middle back) but i'm sure he also will go to there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 We had 20 pulls on him on Wednesday night. He split even on going left or right, but never to the MC platform first. In fact, he only did MC last. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peelyon 416 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Although we only did about 6 pulls we didn't get any to the back first. If it is only a rare chance he does sart at the back then starting your pull on one platform sounds an even better option for people like us who struggle a little with low dps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
