MM

[Silverwhisp 0]

On the guide it says You need to pick barrage if you pick steady focus, just wondering why this is, does steady focus not work well with glaive toss too? I can't see why it says this if anyone knows

[Iridar 80]

On the guide it says You need to pick barrage if you pick steady focus, just wondering why this is, does steady focus not work well with glaive toss too? I can't see why it says this if anyone knows

I assume this is because Steady Focus + Focusing Shot gives more focus, and Barrage allows to spend that focus faster and more efficiently. 

 

But, which to use, if any, Barrage or GT, is something that you should sim for yourself.

[Minigun 1]

I assume this is because Steady Focus + Focusing Shot gives more focus, and Barrage allows to spend that focus faster and more efficiently. 

 

But, which to use, if any, Barrage or GT, is something that you should sim for yourself.

 

I am pretty sure if you take FS+SF for MM that barrage becomes better in single target.

 

EDIT: 

I sim 600 more dps with barrage over GT.

 

Personally, I can't stand Focusing shot with MM!  Aimed shot as opposed to an instant cast filler makes it feel very clunky.  It always feels like I am wasting focus or waiting.  What's more there is a very noticeable delay between casting aimed shot, it hitting, and the game registering it was a crit.  Therefore, you often waste 20 crit refunds, because you simply can't make use of them.  Then, AFTER you are capped you are casting a 2.2 second long aimed shot to try to dump focus again.

 

The last time I sim'd MM it said SF+AMOC+Ba+FS was a ~300 dps gain over ToTH+Stampede+GT+LW.  I have serious doubts if you can realistically even see that in a stand still fight like butcher, but regardless it's not the least bit viable imo.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Minigun

[Iridar 80]

I am pretty sure if you take FS+SF for MM that barrage becomes better in single target.

 

EDIT: 

I sim 600 more dps with barrage over GT.

 

Personally, I can't stand Focusing shot with MM!  Aimed shot as opposed to an instant cast filler makes it feel very clunky.  It always feels like I am wasting focus or waiting.  What's more there is a very noticeable delay between casting aimed shot, it hitting, and the game registering it was a crit.  Therefore, you often waste 20 crit refunds, because you simply can't make use of them.  Then, AFTER you are capped you are casting a 2.2 second long aimed shot to try to dump focus again.

 

The last time I sim'd MM it said SF+AMOC+Ba+FS was a ~300 dps gain over ToTH+Stampede+GT+LW.  I have serious doubts if you can realistically even see that in a stand still fight like butcher, but regardless it's not the least bit viable imo.

I wouldn't even bother with FS, not unless I would see a sim of a 10% DPS increase or more over LW. 

 

For my gear, SF + FS sims as 600 DPS higher than TotH + LW (2.5% difference).

 

With TotH + LW you can be much closer to theoretical maximum, because there are less opportunities to suffer a DPS loss due to movement. 

 

Still, FS kinda does synergyze well with MM, with all that low-movement spec flavor. Consider that delaying Chimaera or sometimes overcapping on focus a bit while using FS is not such a terrible thing. Simulationcraft does waste about 2% focus due to overcapping. Sometimes, overcapping simply can't be avoided, and in that case it's not a mistake. 

 

Delaying Chimaera because you're busy casting another ability is not a mistake either. Simcraft delays Chimaera by 1.5 seconds on average, both with TotH and FS + SF. It's not a good thing, and it's better to avoid it if you can, but it's better than idling for more than half a second, or cancelling a shot mid-cast, and without an accessible GCD plug / focus dump (Arcane Shot) you can't really do anything to avoid it. 

 

All that said, I'm not even sure there's much reason to raid as MM. BiS gear MM does less DPS than BiS SV, it's much easier to make mistakes as MM, and MM does worse than SV on heavy movement / multiple target fights, of which there are a lot in highmaul. 

 

MM doesn't have much to offer, except for excellent execute and loads of direct damage.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Iridar

[Minigun 1]

I wouldn't even bother with FS, not unless I would see a sim of a 10% DPS increase or more over LW. 

 

For my gear, SF + FS sims as 600 DPS higher than TotH + LW (2.5% difference).

 

With TotH + LW you can be much closer to theoretical maximum, because there are less opportunities to suffer a DPS loss due to movement. 

 

Still, FS kinda does synergyze well with MM, with all that low-movement spec flavor. Consider that delaying Chimaera or sometimes overcapping on focus a bit while using FS is not such a terrible thing. Simulationcraft does waste about 2% focus due to overcapping. Sometimes, overcapping simply can't be avoided, and in that case it's not a mistake. 

 

Delaying Chimaera because you're busy casting another ability is not a mistake either. Simcraft delays Chimaera by 1.5 seconds on average, both with TotH and FS + SF. It's not a good thing, and it's better to avoid it if you can, but it's better than idling for more than half a second, or cancelling a shot mid-cast, and without an accessible GCD plug / focus dump (Arcane Shot) you can't really do anything to avoid it. 

 

All that said, I'm not even sure there's much reason to raid as MM. BiS gear MM does less DPS than BiS SV, it's much easier to make mistakes as MM, and MM does worse than SV on heavy movement / multiple target fights, of which there are a lot in highmaul. 

 

MM doesn't have much to offer, except for excellent execute and loads of direct damage.

 

Idk seeing all that focus going to waste irritates the hell out of me.

 

MM is pretty good at sniping adds that need to be dealt with quick.  The voidwalkers on imp for example.  Aimed shot crit, barrage, Chim shot, 2x Kill shot.   That is some nice burst!

[Orthios 271]

Idk seeing all that focus going to waste irritates the hell out of me.

 

MM is pretty good at sniping adds that need to be dealt with quick.  The voidwalkers on imp for example.  Aimed shot crit, barrage, Chim shot, 2x Kill shot.   That is some nice burst!

OR, you can multi-dot it with SV, just throw an arcane shot it's way.  You can also then multi-dot the warmages in the intermission.  And if your guild does things like mine does, where I stay on the small adds with our bear tank, you can throw a BA onto the one that isn't being focused on along with a few arcane shots to get SS up and then go about multi-shotting the small adds.

[Silverwhisp 0]

Thanks for the reply guys!

Where do I go to sim my dps never done it before, and in your opinion what's better for dps in a raid thrill of the hunt or steady focus? I know many hunters use thrill of the hunt but I find I'm running low on focus alot more with this

 

Cheers guys

[Iridar 80]

OR, you can multi-dot it with SV, just throw an arcane shot it's way.  You can also then multi-dot the warmages in the intermission.  And if your guild does things like mine does, where I stay on the small adds with our bear tank, you can throw a BA onto the one that isn't being focused on along with a few arcane shots to get SS up and then go about multi-shotting the small adds.

Minigun does have a point, it's not about DPS, it's about killing the target fast, and in that regard MM is clearly better. Kinda what I implied by "direct damage".

[Iridar 80]

Thanks for the reply guys!

Where do I go to sim my dps never done it before, and in your opinion what's better for dps in a raid thrill of the hunt or steady focus? I know many hunters use thrill of the hunt but I find I'm running low on focus alot more with this

 

Cheers guys

For simming check out this:

https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/wiki/StartersGuide

 

As for Steady Focus, it pairs better with Focusing Shot than with Lone Wolf, so usually you pick between SF + FS or TotH + LW. 

In ideal situation, SF + FS gives a bit more single target DPS, but it's much easier to make mistakes with that setup, and it's less mobile because you need to be stationary while casting FS, while the DPS difference is not big enough to make SF + FS worth it. 

[Orthios 271]

Thanks for the reply guys!

Where do I go to sim my dps never done it before, and in your opinion what's better for dps in a raid thrill of the hunt or steady focus? I know many hunters use thrill of the hunt but I find I'm running low on focus alot more with this

 

Cheers guys

http://simulationcraft.org/

Download simc, as for testing different talent combinations with simc:

copy=SF_Stamp_GT_LW
talents=0001313

copy=TotH_Stamp_GT_LW
talents=0003313

copy=TotH_Crows_GT_LW
talents=0003113

copy=SF_Crows_GT_LW
talents=0001113

copy=SV_TotH_Stamp_GT_FS
talents=0003312

copy=TotH_Crows_GT_FS
talents=0003112

copy=SF_Crows_GT_FS
talents=0001112

copy=TotH_Stamp_GT_EM
talents=3311

copy=SF_Stamp_GT_EM
talents=1311

copy=TotH_Crows_GT_EM
talents=0003111

copy=SF_Crows_GT_EM
talents=0001111

These are the ones I test between, 0 means no talent taken for that talent row (first number is the first talent row, 2nd is 2nd, etc.) 1 means the one on the left, 2 is the middle, and 3 is the one on the right.

 

 

Minigun does have a point, it's not about DPS, it's about killing the target fast, and in that regard MM is clearly better. Kinda what I implied by "direct damage".

Yeah, thing is with my guild that add goes down fast enough that I barely have time to use aimed > Kill Shot as MM.  And yes while getting that add down fast is good, getting the warmages down fast is a pretty high priority, and multi-dotting them helps tremendously.  Then in the 2nd intermission you have the reaver that needs to go down alongside the 2 warmages, and multi-dotting all 3 gets all 3 down faster.

[Silverwhisp 0]

For simming check out this:

https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/wiki/StartersGuide

 

As for Steady Focus, it pairs better with Focusing Shot than with Lone Wolf, so usually you pick between SF + FS or TotH + LW. 

In ideal situation, SF + FS gives a bit more single target DPS, but it's much easier to make mistakes with that setup, and it's less mobile because you need to be stationary while casting FS, while the DPS difference is not big enough to make SF + FS worth it. 

 

Cheers, I'm picking lonewolf mainly because I seem to move a bit in raids but I'll test at both, so glaive toss is the best without steady focus I'm guessing 

 

Thanks again guys, you've been more helpful than the actual hunter forums ^^