TeamC 6 Report post Posted January 9, 2015 First time poster. Long time lurker. I have a bit of a problem that I'm hoping I can get some advice/perspective on from the people here. I've played whatever iteration of Protection Paladin has existed since back in the days of Burning Crusade, so I've always stayed current on the mechanics and contemporary theorycrafting as to how best to play Prot Pally, from gearing to rotation, so I feel like I have a solid grasp on the nuts and bolts of how to play my class, as well as which stats to prioritize when I can and so forth. I've successfully main-tanked and off-tanked the majority of relevant normal modes and heroic modes, so I feel like I have a pretty solid grasp on the basics of tanking in general. With that preface out of the way, I feel like I'm immensely squishy tanking as Paladin right now. The guild I'm part of is 7/7 Normal, 6/7 Heroic HM as of last night, so we're doing fairly well. But in pretty much every encounter aside from normal and heroic Kargath, I feel like I'm being cut apart as if I were wearing paper armor. It's not stuff like Necrotic Breath that tends to be the problem but basic series of melee hits that tend to drop me. I wish I had a log I could post for better analysis, but I feel like I can't be left alone tanking for more than 2-3 seconds without taking a series of hits that drop me from 100%-ish down to 20%-ish. To that end I don't feel like I can ever spare the time to work up 5 stacks of Bastion of Glory for powerful Word of Glory use. I'm often popping WoG out of fear of dying with 0-2 stacks of BoG, if that. Even with proper use of CDs like DP, GoAK, etc. I feel like I'm constantly on my heels just to avoid falling over dead, never with the time to do what I'd consider a 'proper' rotation as suggested in the Prot Paladin section of this website. I've even started feeling like Holy Prism is mandatory for me because of its faster CD compared to other options in that tier. I often feel like I'm forced to expend valuable CDs like LoH or GoAK during the seemingly "calm" moments of encounters just to not die, and then when crunch time comes those aren't always available again. Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/windrunner/Selesa/simple That's pretty much my basic gear/talent/glyph loadout with the empty Major Glyph slot empty atm since I was running un-glyphed Divine Protection in a few fights that have more magic damage. I've never felt this weak as a Prot Paladin in any other expansion short of the early days of TBC. I'd appreciate any help you can offer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cedrin 3 Report post Posted January 10, 2015 It's really hard to give much help without logs as you know. Any chance someone from your guild has personal logs they could make public? I recently swapped to my pally to tank and was managing heroic butcher at around 642 ilvl. Any actual encounters you have been having issues with? I find myself constantly changing talents and glyphs per encounter. I've taken a liking to seraphim unless tanking multiple adds. I think it would be fine there too though. Honestly though sounds like you have done well with your progression. I'll try to be more constructive once I get off my phone and can look at armory or if I find any logs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeamC 6 Report post Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I'll see if I can find a log from last week's raid to post for a bit more examination, or failing that I'll try to post a log from this week's raids. Mostly I seem okay on Heroics like Kargath, Tectus, and Twin Ogron where the damage is generally pretty stable assuming the rest of the raid is doing things properly. Where I really start to notice problems is on Heroic Butcher, Brackenspore, and Ko'ragh. I know Butcher is a fight where the tanks are going to be eating a lot of damage in general, but I never feel "safe" enough to work up much past 1-2 stacks of Bastion of Glory, if I even get that many. To clarify: "safe" means being above 30-ish % health. I feel like if I tried to cycle SotR + 3 more HP for a 5 stack of BoG on Word of Glory I'd be dead somewhere between the end of the 3rd SotR just from not having used as many Words of Glory as I could have fit in there. Brackenspore I don't fear the Necrotic Breath much unless I'm going in not topped off in health. Where I run into issues here is when he's not doing the breath, but his standard melee hits. During the moving to mushrooms periods I feel like I'm getting wrecked and don't feel like I can spare a CD for fear of mistiming something and not having something up for Necrotic Breath. I pop trinkets in these phases but they're not quite as effective as the CDs. Ko'ragh the biggest issue is (and perhaps it's due largely to our strategy) there are periods where after a Vulnerability phase I have the boss and the Arcane DoT, so I'm basically moving away from people while being melee-ed while the other tank and DPS handle the adds in the suppression fields. It creates a battlefield scenario where the bulk of the raid is at 11 to 1 o'clock and and I'm moving Ko'ragh down to about 3 to 5 o'clock. This is usually where I'm scrambling for Guardian of Ancient Kings, Lay on Hands, or am gobbling up any holy power I can get for Words of Glory, sometimes even popping them at 1-2 Holy Power which is not very optimal. I've been running Holy Shield since hitting level 100 but I've decided to give Seraphim a shot in this coming raid week and see how it goes. I really don't know if it will be that helpful in getting through what I've described above, but it seems like it might be worth a try. Talking it over with our other tank (Brewmaster) he believes our healers don't have much of a coordinated strategy of who heals who when, and that's a large contributing factor to my woes because he does insane self-healing ( always tops our healing meters by a wide margin) so he's skewing how much the healers feel they need to focus on the tanks, and in general hiding the shortcomings of the healers thus far. If this is, in fact, the case would there be some sort of comparable build and/or approach to just maximize my own self-healing? An Empowered Seals, Holy Prism, Divine Purpose load-out or something like that? Edited January 13, 2015 by TeamC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brady84 4 Report post Posted January 13, 2015 because he does insane self-healing ( always tops our healing meters by a wide margin) What? Your monk tank is the top healer in your raid? or he outheals you as Paladin Tank? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doxa 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2015 To clarify: "safe" means being above 30-ish % health. This is very likely just a healer issue. There is a lot of AOE healing going on in this encounter (esp. ground effect healing such as healing rain). Make sure you're standing in it and the healer know to position their casts so they are accessible to everyone. But you shoulnd't be that low that often. Ko'ragh the biggest issue is (and perhaps it's due largely to our strategy) there are periods where after a Vulnerability phase I have the boss and the Arcane DoT, so I'm basically moving away from people while being melee-ed while the other tank and DPS handle the adds in the suppression fields. This is a strat issue. Assign one tank to take Arcane every single time. As soon as the tank that gets Arcane comes back he should immediatley taunt the boss back. The other tank (the none arcane one) should be picking up adds every time. This will mean there is never a time when you have to tank the boss with arcane or tank the boss while trying to gather adds. Def. post some logs. We'll take a look. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeamC 6 Report post Posted January 14, 2015 What? Your monk tank is the top healer in your raid? or he outheals you as Paladin Tank? Yeah, to clarify: The Monk tank is out healing the raid by a fairly wide margin if you are going by strict, raw numbers. Posting a screenshot of tonight's Skada meters as an idea of what I'm talking about. Heroic Kargath up to Heroic Tectus before we stopped for the night. Trying to find someone who has logs for that since the raid was broken up a bit from normal to Heroic when the GM went AFK for a bit. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiiadbt3lhza10r/wowshot.jpg?dl=0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orthios 271 Report post Posted January 14, 2015 Yeah, to clarify: The Monk tank is out healing the raid by a fairly wide margin if you are going by strict, raw numbers. Posting a screenshot of tonight's Skada meters as an idea of what I'm talking about. Heroic Kargath up to Heroic Tectus before we stopped for the night. Trying to find someone who has logs for that since the raid was broken up a bit from normal to Heroic when the GM went AFK for a bit. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiiadbt3lhza10r/wowshot.jpg?dl=0 What your seeing for the monk is mostly damage that was purified using purifying brew, and is more akin to damage prevention (think: disc priest). Monks can easily hit 40k+ "healing" on fights such as butcher and twins where they can eat a lot of damage and purify 30-50% of it away and where purifying brew (stance of the sturdy Ox) is 60%+ of their healing (which again, is more akin to dage prevention rather than raw healing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
