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Refreshment vendor is much weaker than any other heal minion. Don't play it in Wild.

Brann is great in Reno, generally because Healbot+16 is OP, but a lot of other battle cries as well. Play him if you have him.

Nzoth is not worth it in your deck. You have what, 5 deathrattle minions and 2 of them are boombots. And you have to draw them, too. Either bump deathrattle count significantly or replace him.

Malganis also synergies with only Implosion and and IGB. He is generally not worth it if you don't play Voidcaller.

The whole leeroy combo thing is good if you have the cards : to break control stalemates and clutch wins even against Aggro decks. You can buy more time in Wild and Aggro is not as prevalent there.

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17 minutes ago, Paracel said:

Refreshment vendor is much weaker than any other heal minion. Don't play it in Wild.

Brann is great in Reno, generally because Healbot+16 is OP, but a lot of other battle cries as well. Play him if you have him.

Nzoth is not worth it in your deck. You have what, 5 deathrattle minions and 2 of them are boombots. And you have to draw them, too. Either bump deathrattle count significantly or replace him.

Malganis also synergies with only Implosion and and IGB. He is generally not worth it if you don't play Voidcaller.

The whole leeroy combo thing is good if you have the cards : to break control stalemates and clutch wins even against Aggro decks. You can buy more time in Wild and Aggro is not as prevalent there.

I actually don't have Leeroy, although he's on my short list for crafting (I have around 8500 dust still tucked away, since I haven't crafted much since Old Gods launched. However, despite how good the Leeroy/Faceless/PO combo is, I don't much enjoy that style of play, and prefer a more control oriented Renolock.

Refreshment Vendor is in the deck as an extra heal vs. Aggro; before WoG launched, I often found myself unable to draw into enough heals vs. aggro decks, so I wanted an extra option with a solid on curve body. If aggro isn't prevalent, I will replace him with something else.

Brann is a consideration, and I'll definitely take that into advisement.

N'zoth acts as an additional late game win con, replacing the old Stalagg/Feugen duo that I found to be often underwhelming. Bringing back any of the other death rattles in this deck makes it worthwhile, at least in my experience so far. Malganis is another win con, buffing imps and/or just putting a strong body on the board. It's even better since BGH hasn't seen as much play since its nerf.

Just my thoughts, but thank you for the critique! The evaluation is appreciated!

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Having a combo down your sleeve doesn't really affect your control plan. Opportunity cost is so low and payoff is just huge - but if you really don't want it, that's ok for the WIld. Standard Renolock is a real deal and combo is essential there, though, keep it in mind. The thing is Reno decks have more limited removal kit than any other control deck and sorta have to play offence in a Control vs Control setup, and being able to just push for damage, no strings attached is what covers that strategical disadvantage.

I personally like Feugen and Stalagg in my Reno decks, just because 5 mana slot is generally poor and those guys are solid against control and midrange. You throw bodies in the fray, you can Taunt them up and occasionally get 11\11 that takes a very specific setup to deal with. Deathrattle count for Nzoth also goes up. I admit that I don't have much experience with The Corruptor, and having just 2-3 dudes come back may be in fact enough to win games.

 

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Hi - I posted in the deck-specific forum for this guide:

https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/legendary-tempo-mage-standard-deck 

But feel like it may not be suitable as the main powerhouse legendary has been subbed, so here we are:


I'm a new player as of last season and decided to adapt this:

https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/legendary-tempo-mage-standard-deck

as my first contructed deck. I am using Malygos as a sub for Antonidas (after getting Malygos in a pack luckily, and having more Mage cards than the rest by chance). I built it to rush from rank 20 to 15+ last night with success, using the below subs:

- 1 Archmage Antonidas + 1 Malygos

- 1 Spellslinger + 1 Mirror Image 

- 1 Ethereal Conjurer + 1 Cabalist's Tome

Any tips on what other subs to make when using Malygos instead? I have found for example that Cabalist's has actually been very useful without those 3 spell generating cards. And critique on the following subs I am considering (to my deck) would also be good:

- 1 Water Elemental + 1 Faceless Manipulator (+spell dmg synergy)

- 1 Mirror Image + 1 Flamestrike (have found myself wanting this against aggro in ladder and loving when Cabalist's gives me one)

I have all wings of Blackrock but no other expansions atm, and can rustle up around 500 dust easily but happy to take expensive suggestions for the future too

Cheers

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Hello it's me again. This time I am here with a zoo lock deck for standard. I don't really have a lot of cards for it like gormok or montain giants and have around 800 dust. Also I don't have loe as I didn't have any time for grinding. Here is the decklist thanks in advance.

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Hey guys,working on a midrange hunter,any thoughts?

2 Webspinner

1 Explosive Trap

2 Freezing Trap

1 King's Ellek (Replacing Quick Shot til I get BrM)

2 Animal Companion

2 Eaglehorn Bow

1 Deadly Shot

2 Kill Command

2 Unleash the Hounds

2 Houndmaster

2 Savannah Highmane

1 Call of the Wild

2 Haunted Creeper

2 Knife Juggler

2 Mad scientist

2 Piloted Shredder

2 Stampeding Kodo

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On 5. 6. 2016 at 9:36 PM, RadoslavTrump said:

Hello it's me again. This time I am here with a zoo lock deck for standard. I don't really have a lot of cards for it like gormok or montain giants and have around 800 dust. Also I don't have loe as I didn't have any time for grinding. Here is the decklist thanks in advance.

How many wings of BrM and LoE do you have?

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30 minutes ago, TheEviscerator said:

Hey guys,working on a midrange hunter,any thoughts?

2 Webspinner

1 Explosive Trap

2 Freezing Trap

1 King's Ellek (Replacing Quick Shot til I get BrM)

2 Animal Companion

2 Eaglehorn Bow

1 Deadly Shot

2 Kill Command

2 Unleash the Hounds

2 Houndmaster

2 Savannah Highmane

1 Call of the Wild

 

2 Haunted Creeper

2 Knife Juggler

2 Mad scientist

2 Piloted Shredder

2 Stampeding Kodo

I would add Dr. Boom in place of one Stampeding Kodo
A lot of players use Princess Huhuran, so maybe you could try including her as well in place of Deadly Shot (if you face faster/floody decks) or in place of second Stampeding Kodo (if you face more control decks). I haven't tried her out yet myself, so I can't say how powerful she is though.
You could change your trap setup, depending on decks you face and which traps you like. 

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I am playing Warlock Zoo at rank 12 EU and I'm working on improving my deck.

Here it is:
* 2 Forbidden Ritual
* 2 Abusive Sergeant
* 2 Flame Imp
* 2 Possessed Villager
* 2 Power Overwhelming
* 1 Soulfire
* 2 Voidwalker
* 1 Bilefin Tidehunter
* 2 Dark Peddler
* 2 Dire Wolf Alpha
* 1 Flame Juggler
* 2 Knife Juggler
* 2 Darkshire Councilman
* 2 Imp Gang Boss
* 2 Defender of Argus
* 1 Doomguard
* 1 Leeroy Jenkins
* 1 Sea Giant

Trump has a few different options in his Zoo deck (he also played it yesterday at rank 13):
* +2 mortal coil
* +2 argent sq
* -1 bilefin tidehunter
* -1 forbidden
* -1 flame juggler
* -doomguard

I'm curious of his reasoning, or if it's even worth to make some switches.
Basically he has +4 1 mana cost cards, with the argent being pretty sticky.
I have another combo for wolf/flame with forbidden (that's also useful against AoE, especially when you have 2 in hand, later in game and can ask for an AoE straight away).
Also I find myself having either leeroy or doomguard during a match or getting in a bit of trouble with good taunts and doomguard helps + it's sticky.

What are the advantages/disadvantages here?

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Bile fin tidehunter is a narrow card in general. It's value is not high enough to justify inclusion over anything.

Forbidden Ritual is pretty polarizing, either very good refill option or a bad filler spell. I can certainly see getting away with playing 1 if you face a lot of Warrior.

Flame Juggler is OK but pretty low impact to be honest, only helpful in Aggro matchups basically. I feel really confident about not playing it in my own 30.

With Mortal Coil and Argent Squire Trump basically puts a lot of his eggs in "I wan to play against Shaman or mirror" basket, it's a good plan but I can't agree 100% percent. Meta is too wide open. But then again it's an opinion of rank 15 scrub against a US Presidential Candidate.

 

Whole reasoning behind "doomguard/no doomguard" is 2 pieces : card availability (people simply don't have Leeroy) and how afraid are you about discarding 2 at random.

Doomguard is not great against control decks because ey will kill it anyways and discarding strategical card like Power Overwhelming or 2nd Doomguard can be awkward. Against other fast decks you are already sticky with your core cards so it doesn't really matter that much.

Leeroy has 6 power and you can handle those 1/1s usually easy, also protect him with your own taunt from opposing board. However he is notoriously bad at trading. A slight change to your game with Leeroy over Doomguard and you don't lose your lethals to RNG. Also enables Soulfire without being very awkward and that card is strong. 

General meta is to play at least 1 charge, common combinations are either 2 Doomguard, 1 Doomguard, 1 Leeroy, 1 Leeroy 1 Soulfire but not a split between two because they are, as I said, pretty different.

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2 hours ago, Paracel said:

Bile fin tidehunter is a narrow card in general. It's value is not high enough to justify inclusion over anything.

There are actually pro players running Bilefin Tidehunter in their aggro zoo, such as Kripp or Sottle. Not sure why, but they do. 

 

2 hours ago, Paracel said:

Leeroy has 6 power and you can handle those 1/1s usually easy

Trading into Whelps might not be best. You said about Doomguard that it will be destroyed in control matchup, which means that Leeroy Jenkins would die as well. 

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7 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

There are actually pro players running Bilefin Tidehunter in their aggro zoo, such as Kripp or Sottle. Not sure why, but they do. 

Until we find out, I'd like to trust my own judgement, thank you.

7 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

Trading into Whelps might not be best. You said about Doomguard that it will be destroyed in control matchup, which means that Leeroy Jenkins would die as well. 

What I meant in that comparison is that there are certainly cases where you are tempted to play Doomguard on curve, to capitalize on its 7 toughness. This is powerful against minions and Lightning Bolt but not against Execute and Shadow Word : Death. 

Enter the 6-power legendary. And that equation changes drastically.

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The reasons could be that it protects you MVP minions such as Darkshire CouncilmanLeeroy JenkinsKnife Juggler or Dire Wolf Alpha. Combined with it being multi-body minion, which synergises with Knife JugglerDarkshire CouncilmanDire Wolf AlphaDefender of ArgusGormok the Impaler and buff cards as it is harder to remove by minions, it becomes quite high value card. 

It might die to Execute, but at least it doesn't die to Bash or Slam. Zoo runs low amount of situational cards, so you will often have empty hand when you play Doomguard, or you will discard low-value cards, such as Possessed Villager or Voidwalker. Also, currently the most played decks are (from my experience) zoo, aggro shaman and midrange shaman. Neither of those classes will have problem with dealing with Leeroy Jenkins, and zoo will even use the Whelps by buffing them. Additionally, Doomguard can be used to trade into minions, which is very useful against the aforementioned decks.

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Let's just sum this argument up like this : Leeroy Jenkins is better against control, Doomguard against aggro.

I shelved my golden rares a month ago and no remorse kicked in yet. Layer 2 of this problem is that you'd like Leeroy against control more than you'd like Doomguard against aggro, but this rabbit hole is strategic and goes really deep...

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All right, regarding my Zoo deck, what would you recommend if I'm facing mostly Mid Hunter, Warriors and Warlock Zoo? Level 12 is full of these decks.

I added Argent and took out forbidden because of the warriors for now.

Edited by vaidab

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12 hours ago, vaidab said:

Here it is:
* 2 Forbidden Ritual
* 2 Abusive Sergeant
* 2 Flame Imp
* 2 Possessed Villager
* 2 Power Overwhelming
* 1 Soulfire
* 2 Voidwalker
* 1 Bilefin Tidehunter
* 2 Dark Peddler
* 2 Dire Wolf Alpha
* 1 Flame Juggler
* 2 Knife Juggler
* 2 Darkshire Councilman
* 2 Imp Gang Boss
* 2 Defender of Argus
* 1 Doomguard
* 1 Leeroy Jenkins
* 1 Sea Giant

You are completely down on 4 slot of Gormok/ Dark Iron Dwarf. Those cards are pretty important in outgrinding your opponent which you are basically doing in your Hunter/mirror matchups. Plus they can give additional pain for your warrior opponents.

I would advocate sticking close to default build's like presented here, on Icy Veins, probably keeping that 1 Argent Squire 1 Soulfire thing that is popular now and playing some tech cards like Acidic Swamp Ooze and Crazed Alchemist.  They are pretty good against Warrior, Warlock and Hunter.

Reasonable cuts are Bilefin Tidehunter, Flame Juggler and one of charge minions - either Doomguard or Leeroy, I'd rather play latter if Soulfire is in. 

Possible slots are also made with 1 Forbidden Ritual and 1 Dire Wolf Alpha (pretty darn risky though). Dropping Sea Giant altogether doesn't sound great because mirrors and Shamans. 

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I am driven by the idea to get legend rank with an Evolve Shaman this month.
As I don't have too much time to play at the moment, I thought I might ask for ideas here how to improve the deck.
Please keep the idea and don't tell me Face or Tempo is better, haha.

The midgame is incredible. Early game is pretty rough, against the very fast decks.
But I must say it works much better gainst Zoo than I expected.
Priest is the best matchup. Rogue also doesn't do alot. Hunter has a hard time to get damage through.
Tempo mage is quite a hard matchup, as well as Tempo warrior.
I won more fatigue games than expected gainst freeze mage and control warrior.
The scarabs make the deck agile to react.
Well, I don't want to write too much as I am excited what ideas you guys have.

This is the list, how I played it today most times:

 

ValueEvolutionDecklist.jpg
Edit:
Maybe I am a bit too impatient, so I will add more thoughts.
I decided to not play a weapen, because it feels like many opponents have a dead ooze or Harrison in their hand for many turns, which gives an advantage. Second thing is, you don't want to overload too much as you don't want to waste slots for unlocking cards to sustain versatile turn choices.
The stormcrack is a test (i replaced the second lightning bolt), which mostly aims for killing the mirror match totem golems, the taunt protected frothing beserkers and all the other annoying 4 hp minions.
I am not sure about bloodlust at the moment. It very often ends up as a value trading tool, but very rarely as a finishing tool. The Brann combos are just insanely strong and unexpected in a Shaman deck. It just feels so good to play a Brann plus Tuskarr after a board clear turn and cause some instant concedes with Evolve on a huge board.

Edited by HackFin
More information added

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On 12.06.2016 at 9:20 PM, HackFin said:

 

ValueEvolutionDecklist.jpg
 

Name a card that you expect to kill with Earth Shock.

Scarab contributes to your already overloaded 3-drop slot. It's not "agility" as you say, exactly the opposite because it's really expensive.

Defender of Argus is The Card against aggresive MUs. With all the bodies lying around it makes sense to play 2 copies.

Running out of gas and lacking reach to finish your opponents will be your problems. Consider playing more aggresive version if you run into a lot of Warrior, Priest and Paladin.

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On 17.6.2016 at 11:11 PM, Paracel said:

Name a card that you expect to kill with Earth Shock.

Scarab contributes to your already overloaded 3-drop slot. It's not "agility" as you say, exactly the opposite because it's really expensive.

Defender of Argus is The Card against aggresive MUs. With all the bodies lying around it makes sense to play 2 copies.

Running out of gas and lacking reach to finish your opponents will be your problems. Consider playing more aggresive version if you run into a lot of Warrior, Priest and Paladin.

Thank you Paracel for your answer!

Earth Shock is against the huge deathrattle minions or removing a taunt to push damage. + Killing all the Twilight Drakes around.
+ Silencing Acolytes, silencing hound mastered minions or just getting favourable trades.
I think it is a really strong card in this meta.

The 3-drop slot is only overloaded when you got the totem golem on turn 2, which means you didn't play the Scarab on turn 2 - where's the point? Or if you meant the number of three cost cards - there are only 4 of them you actually want to play on turn 3 (Tuskarr and Wolves).

You are right, I added the second Defender the next day after posting this. As there are many Zoos around.

When you compare it to other versions of midrange shaman, I don't see the validity of your point of running out of gas, as it feels more versatile in midgame. But I might have misunderstood your point. I might add Doomhammer and TBV again.

As I wrote in the beginning I don't want to play the more aggressive version, as it is boring and I played it last month already quite regularly.
But as I said as well, I didn't have too much time to play this season yet, so I am only rank 5 atm, maybe you played more games of midrange Shaman and have a deeper view on this, so I will think about your ideas. You might though express your thoughts behind your critics a bit more to make your pints more graspable and convertable.

Greetings,
HackFin

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Hello everybody

Currently I am experimenting with a combo style worgen deck. It's incredibly fun to play, and I am very happy with the core of the deck. However, I am wondering if some of you experts out there spot some possible card swaps that could improve the deck. Another whirlwind effect could come in handy at times to get more value from Accolythe and Battle Rage. But I can't find the cards I'd want to swap. Here is the list:

https://imgur.com/KeEFYan

I have seen Thijs and Firebat playing a somewhat similar decklist. Both relied on a single Inner Rage, and didn't sport Faceless Manipulator. Instead they went with even more card draw. While I see the reasoning behind that, double Rage and Faceless make the Control/C'Thun Warrior matchup winnable. And I feel I have still enough card draw. In fact, both Firebat and Thijs were often fighting against overdrawing.

 

If anybody has ideas on what to try, or spots a clear improvement for the deck that would be much appreciated.

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1 hour ago, Linos said:

Hello everybody

Currently I am experimenting with a combo style worgen deck. It's incredibly fun to play, and I am very happy with the core of the deck. However, I am wondering if some of you experts out there spot some possible card swaps that could improve the deck. Another whirlwind effect could come in handy at times to get more value from Accolythe and Battle Rage. But I can't find the cards I'd want to swap. Here is the list:

https://imgur.com/KeEFYan

I have seen Thijs and Firebat playing a somewhat similar decklist. Both relied on a single Inner Rage, and didn't sport Faceless Manipulator. Instead they went with even more card draw. While I see the reasoning behind that, double Rage and Faceless make the Control/C'Thun Warrior matchup winnable. And I feel I have still enough card draw. In fact, both Firebat and Thijs were often fighting against overdrawing.

 

If anybody has ideas on what to try, or spots a clear improvement for the deck that would be much appreciated.

You want a deck for standard mode, or is wild okay as well?

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Your problem with Battle Rage comes not from lacking Whilwind, but from low creature count itself. Only 2 cheap minions in Armorsmith and then 1 Inventor and Acolytes who are themselves both card draw and high priority targets. 

If you feel like you have enough card draw I'd buff up the removal package to classic Control Shield Slam / Bash / both - you have plenty of armor tools and it saves your plan well. In that scenario your possible cuts are Battle Rages for reasons mentioned.

Another option is to include 2 Ravaging Ghoul. Both your creature count and effectiveness against Aggro will improve. Loot Hoarder and Harrison may be the weakest links in that scenario, but it feels like it could affect card draw more than possible upside is. At your discretion - I don't have much experience with Worgen.decks

Edited by Paracel
Accidentally clicked "post" before finishing the post

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      Once again, another big expensive card and a solid showy effect to go along with it. Obvious deathrattle/reborn synergy, as well as good with big minions in general. At 10 cost, it will take up your entire mana pool for the turn, though there are things you can do to play around that as a shaman.
      We’ve gotten some clarification from the devs on the mechanics of this one:
      All the copies summoned die at the end of the effect trigger after having attacked. Unfortunately, it won’t be some corruption-style aura effect that a cheeky Showstopper effect can silence off. Your copies are made from your hand from left to right until no more board spaces are available. Beware that Colossals will summon their appendages and take up potential board space from your other copies. Windfury minions will only attack. Sorry Drakuru, no double freebies for you ? Minions that enter Dormant won’t attack, but they won’t die either! The interaction of getting free dormant minion copies on board is interesting, but is there enough to build a deck around? In standard, there is Gangplank, Slimescale, and Pelican Divers, but outside of From De Other Side “synergy,” they might not be worth it. In Wild, at the very least, there is meme potential with getting Magtheridion and The Darkness out with this and getting their battlecries to awaken both copies when you play them out the turn after.
      There’s obvious synergy with the other big cards revealed here, with Prescience loading up your hand with some beefy bois, getting get off reborn, lifesteal and deathrattle value, summon a minion from Overlord Drakuru.

      That’s a lot of keywords for a single card, but they work together to become the stuff of nightmares for any board-based aggro deck. Taunt and lifesteal make this a nightmare to trade into, and even with enough removal to clear the main body and the reborn one, the deathrattle effect still will hit for 3 twice and heal you for 6. So while the 3 attack won’t be anything to write home about, plopping this down will buy you a good deal of time. There’s also the possibility to make use of the leftover reborn 3/1 body to evolve into a 9 or 10 drop.

      This card will get you 2 Mana 2/3 Ghostly Apparitions with the Undead minion type, which can matter for cards like Unliving Champion, or Invincible, for instance. Suppose you trigger the secondary ability here both times. In that case, that’s a pretty sweet deal right there, advancing a Big Shaman win con in 2 ways: The taunt on the Ghostly Apparitions advances your gameplan of stalling the game out until you can stabilize on board enough to play the 5+ Mana minions you’ve tutored out of the deck.
      We’ve theory crafted 3 potential builds that can use this package of Shaman cards.
      First, consider diving head first into the Big Shaman theme, bringing in Vanndar Stormpike and forgoing all other sub-5 cost minions to get max value out of Prescience and From De Other Side. We’re also going to run with the evolve subtheme to take advantage of any leftover bodies that we might get from Stoneborn General, Overlord Drakuru, or Blighblood Berserkers. The departure of the Knights of the Frozen Throne set will make evolving 10 drops better again now that there are no more Snowfury Giants in the Evolve pool, and we get to re-roll for the generally better bodies from the 10 costs. We’re adding in some early-game removal to compensate for the lack of early drops so we can better survive the early game.
      Deck code / link: 
      AAECAaoICunQBMORBKeNBK/ZBNnsA/rsA4qSBfuRBYfUBKrZBArG+QOs7QS12QTgtQS22QTblATGzgTj9gOGoQX4oAUA
      Next, let’s try to use the standard Renathal Control Shaman archetype that’s doing rather well in the meta as a starting point. One safe idea is to look at slotting Overlord Drakuru and potentially Brightblood Berskerker and From De Other Side into this standard XL Renathal Control Shaman as ways of fighting back on board while getting your infuse cards stacked up.
      Deck code / link: 
      AAECAaoIFKjuA6bvA4b6A6SBBMORBMeyBOm2BOnQBJjUBLjZBJfvBKTvBNWyBODtBIqSBdWyBPuRBfSgBbzwBODtBArG+QPTgASVkgTblATgtQSWtwSywQTFzgS12QS22QQA
      We could instead also try and drop all the duplicates from the list and convert it into a Reno deck, as the deck was already playing a lot of one-offs. That gives us just enough room for one of each of these bad boys, which together with Reno will up the turnaround potential of the deck at the cost of a little bit of consistency. Doing so we can end up with this list:
      Deck code / link: 
      AECAaoICunQBMORBKeNBK/ZBNnsA/rsA4qSBfuRBYfUBKrZBArG+QOs7QS12QTgtQS22QTblATGzgTj9gOGoQX4oAUA
      Why not use both and make it a Reno-thal deck? Prescience and Windchill will try to compensate for the loss of card draw from droping one copy of Gorloc Ravager and Famished fool. We are adding in Convincing Disguise to have still enough evolve effects around. The idea of including Bracing Cold and Far Sight is to hopefully discount From De Other Side or the evolve cards so we make use of any leftover bodies in the same turn. Ozumat’s in here not just to get us up to 40 cards, but because it’s a near guaranteed board clear combo with From De Other side, if you manage your hand and board space just right, that leaves you with all its appendages afterward.
      Deck code / link: 
      AAECAaoIKKjuA6bvA6SBBMORBMeyBOm2BOnQBJjUBLjZBJfvBKTvBMb5A9OABJWSBNuUBNWyBOC1BJa3BLLBBMXOBMbOBLXZBLbZBODtBLzwBIb6A6/ZBPrsA/SgBcSsBNnsA4fUBIXUBLGwBJrUBLzOBIahBfigBYqSBfuRBQAA
       
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